Ep 88: Architecture and construction industry awards from three perspectives
Welcome back to The Built Environment Marketing Show.
Welcome to the Built Environment Marketing Show hosted by me, marketer Ayo Abbas from Abbas Marketing. In this episode, I share some of my experiences of being involved in industry awards from three perspectives, as a judge, as an organiser and as an entrant.
This year alone, I've judged three major awards programs The RIBA Awards West London region, The Brunel University Entrepreneurship Awards, and the global Architizer A+ Awards. On top of this last year I assessed over 100 award entries, so I feel I've got lots to say on this and how to create submissions that make shortlists and even go onto win.
I share:
How to approach awards strategically
Ways to research and select the right awards
Tips on what makes award entries compelling
The importance of using accessible language
How to structure winning narratives and tell compelling stories
Ways to prepare for judging visits
What judges actually look for
Resources and links
About the show
The Built Environment Marketing Show is hosted by marketing consultant and content creator Ayo Abbas from Abbas Marketing. It is a show that is unashamedly about marketing for architects and engineers, as well as bringing forward voices that we don't always get to hear.
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Transcript
Ayo Abbas 00:05
Ayo, hello and welcome to The Built Environment Marketing show hosted by me, Ayo Abbas. I'm a marketeer, a speaker and a trainer, and I work exclusively with architects, engineers and contractors, something I've done for 24 years, which makes me quite old anyway. Today Today is an episode which is repurposed from a live that I did with Michelle Garrett over on her show called PR explored. Michelle Garrett is a B2B PR expert, and she's lovely, and she's based in the States, and she invited me on to talk about how to do PR and marketing for so called boring industries. So, we go through kind of lots of ideas and tips about actually stuff that we don't think is boring, but also about how to kind of bring these firms and these types of kind of, I guess, industries to life. So really, really useful tips that are really applicable to architects and engineers. Anyway. I hope you enjoy it. Take care. Bye. You.
Michelle Garrett 01:06
Hello everyone, and welcome to today's episode of PR explored. PR explored, if you haven't been here before, is a video podcast where we delve into trends and topics related to public relations and communications and marketing and everything like that. And I'm your host, Michelle Garrett, I'm a PR consultant and writer, and today I have a fabulous guest. I have Ayo Abbas Ayo. I'm so thrilled to have you. You are one of my favourite people. And of course, we met on social media, which is where I've met so many you know, people that I know now in the marketing world. And so I'm just thrilled to have you here. Thanks for being here.
Ayo Abbas 01:49
Thank you so much for inviting me on. I was like, chuffed when that came through, I was like, we were just saying before with me that it's funny how many people we connected with on Twitter, Lord rest its soul, right?! It was just, but it was just that thing. It's like, at the moment, I remember saying the other day, we were like, you know, it's like, we could get 30 to 40,000 views, but not doing very much on Twitter.
Michelle Garrett 02:10
I know, I
Ayo Abbas 02:13
know. And now you're like, Hmm, you're lucky. I mean, I came off it over a year ago, but like, you know, 500 or whatever. And you're like, that's a lot. I mean it now, it just doesn't work. It's really sad,
Michelle Garrett 02:25
yeah, but well, you know, it was good while it lasted, yeah, definitely, definitely, it brought a lot of us together that probably would have never, maybe met if it hadn't been for Twitter. So I really so, so true, and I wanted you to be here to we're going to talk about these boring industries that you and I, both, you know, tend to gravitate toward. But before we get into that, I know your background is in marketing, and you said you have some PR experience. I just love for you to tell us a little bit about you, what you do and how you are and all that good stuff.
Ayo Abbas 03:02
So my name is Ayo Abbas. I am. I call myself a marketing consultant, but I guess my background is I originally started off in PR, so I worked. I started working in 2001 January, 2001 that's how old I am. And I started working in construction PR. So I worked for a PR agency, and our clients were manufacturers. So, they made carpet tiles, lighting, all of that kind of stuff, and they were very much about marketing those products to architects and contractors and all of that kind of stuff. So that is what my background was. So, I did lots of writing, having to pitch, find stories for literally nothing. And then after that, I kind of, after about three years, I moved in house, and I started working for engineering companies, and I'm then working for some small practices, and then onto much larger global firms. And that's probably where I spent most of my career with kind of engineering construction companies who are marketing themselves business to business. So, talking to governments, corporates, you know, local authorities, you know, all that kind of federal and that's kind of always what they've been the arena that I play in. But yeah, so like you say, the things that I enjoy doing are, you know, right now for my company, which is Abbas Marketing, which I started just the in February 2020, I work for myself, and I kind of work with a range of firms on their kind of marketing strategy, content creation. I love creating content, so writing, podcasting, all of that kind of stuff lives, but also, yeah, running campaigns and kind of getting them better at kind of digital marketing on that side as well. So that's kind of what I do now. So yeah, that is me.
Michelle Garrett 04:42
Yay. No, I love that. I yeah, I didn't know about your background in PR. When, when you know, I'd never really knew that you had done that. So I think this is even more appropriate, because you
Ayo Abbas 04:56
just think it gives you a really good grounding, like. Yeah, having to write about a carpet time. It's just, it's about durability. It's about, you know, like, all this kind of different stuff. And I think if you can really kind of get to the nuts and bolts of why something is different and it's an object, it's way easier when you're doing services now and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, you know, having to learn that was, was a huge thing. So, yeah, definitely,
Michelle Garrett 05:21
yeah, I think it gives you a great foundation for a lot of other, you know, marketing related jobs, but, but, ya know, we're, we're pretty well rounded. We PR folk, we can ride, and we can do messaging and branding, and, you know, we can do all kinds of things. So, yeah, but, but now this, this this topic, this boring industry thing. Now, when I say that, I don't mean that I think their industries are boring, however, when I mean I know a lot of people who do PR for like, the beauty industry or the fashion industry, and they have, you know, like, it's just, it's more glitzy, more glamorous, more you know, there's, like, I don't know more, even more events and things like that. Yeah, when we work, I work with a lot of manufacturing clients. And, of course, I work with B2B clients, pretty much, you know, solely, and you work in construction, with construction clients. So I just feel like, sometimes people don't understand what is the appeal of working with those types of clients and in those industries, and I feel like there's just so much to share, and I find it really interesting. But let's I want to hear you. What's your perspective on that?
Ayo Abbas 06:32
You know, I think when I speak to people just generally, when I'm out and about, and not people from my industry, and I sort of say what I do, and people sort of look at me and go, is that really a thing, or is that really a job? And I think one of the things that I love about what I do is that, actually I probably wouldn't find it that interesting promoting shampoo, the smell, the color, the texture. No, it's true. And I think what I find interesting is actually trying to find, you know, what is the angle that hook for A, B2B business? And the thing I love about Business to Business is there's less competition, but it's bigger sales, and there's more things to do, you know. And I think the size of the opportunity is in many respects greater, right? You know, B2B sale could, you know, take two years to get off the ground, really, in terms of, like, the sales pipeline, but actually that will be, you know, volume wise and contract value wise can be way higher than, you know, buying a shampoo off supermarket shelf. So for me, that's kind of why I love it. Is that challenge I've been trying to understand how to connect. You know, you've got multiple audiences and people who are influencers, and there's just so much that you can do, and that's why I don't think it's boring. And I have to admit, I wouldn't think, I wouldn't think it was something that, yeah, I would necessarily, necessarily have thought I've gone into. But I love it here because of that. I think that's the challenge. You know, that bigger sale, when trying to kind of just get more in depth and understand how to how to connect with people in that audience, to buy it. Yeah,
Michelle Garrett 08:03
I think that's, I mean, I think it's, it can be, I think that is exciting to me, because it does kind of cause you to kind of look under the hood and, you know, find the things that are maybe interesting that sometimes I think the people working in the companies don't see it because they're down in the weeds. They're, yeah, that is down in their work. So they need somebody to come in and kind of say, like, oh, wow, that's really cool. Did you ever, have you ever talked about that? Have you ever no go, no, they didn't even realize it was cool. Have you showcased that client, or have you told that story? Or, like, you know, and often, yeah, they just, they didn't even, it didn't even occur to them. So that's why I feel like it's kind of, it can be really fun. And then they also their expectations. Many times are, you know, they don't always know, like, they don't have the same maybe idea about some of these things that other clients who might, you know, have higher expectations, or maybe, you know, just be more demanding in some ways. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but I think,
Ayo Abbas 09:10
no, I get what you mean, though. I think I never forget when I started working on a large construction project next to the and I sat next to like, the Project Director for this, like trains, who's designed this huge train station, and I remember sitting next to him and like, you know, I just joined that company, and, you know, I made simple things. I made him a banner, literally, because nobody in that organization had really cared about his project. He was so happy by I was just like, it's just a pull up banner. But actually, those little things matter, and I think a lot of it is showing you care and that you have an interest in what they're doing, and then they trust you, and you become part of that team, and then you can do more. And I think that's lovely when you start to build that relationship, and you become their go to person as well. So I think there's those types of things where, because they're not always the kind of most loved project. Next Door. People don't realise how important they are. Quite often, these boring industries are like, they're the bottom of the bottom line of so many companies, right? They're the ones that tugging away and, like, always turning over the money. So,
Michelle Garrett 10:12
yeah, yeah, no there. And there are just, like, so many stories to be told there. And I feel like sometimes, again, it's like, people don't, they just look at the surface of whatever's going on. They don't really look and see what's, you know, like, for example, I worked in a with in my first job that was kind of more in the manufacturing realm, was at a welding Institute. But, like, welding, like, who cares about that? Well, bridges, skyscrapers. I mean, you know, there's a lot of stuff that keeps us safe, because if it's not done right, it can, you know, crack or fall apart or, you know, and it's a big deal. So it's, it's, there's stories about that too, just safety and, you know, just things that really touch people's lives that they don't necessarily think about every day, but when you do it's it can be pretty interesting, exactly.
Ayo Abbas 11:05
So, yeah, no, I completely worry. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett 11:11
So when you're working with clients of these industries, do you ever find them to be kind of stuck as to what type of stories or information would make good PR or marketing content. I
Ayo Abbas 11:28
do think there is a thing where a lot of people don't know what good looks like. And I think a lot of what we have to do is show them and ask the questions of and I find a lot of it is, you know, it's not, it's not dumbing stuff down, but it's also just trying to ask them questions that will really get down to the nub. And you know that that point that makes them stand out and differentiate them. So I think quite often it's for us as PR people and communicators. It's, it's for us to delve in and really find those stories. And I think quite often people don't like we said earlier, people don't realize those stories are powerful, and they don't even realise they're there half the time. So yeah, I do think it is one of those things where people just don't realise. So yeah, it's hard to really, really question them.
Michelle Garrett 12:19
Yeah, and so that, I think you made this point a few minutes ago about when you have somebody from the outside, an external consultant, for example, come in, they may be able to see things that you wouldn't see, because you do it day in and day out, and you're just like, Okay, this is my factory, or this is my job site, or whatever I'm not really looking at, you Know, I'm just trying to get the work done, but I've never really thought about it with, you know, looked at it through those eyes before. So I think that's you can kind of teach them too, to start looking for stories that might make good, you know, subject matter for your PR and content folks to be working with. I
Ayo Abbas 12:58
think a lot of it's a two way education process, though, isn't it? It's literally, you're coaching them through it, through that process. And I think once people start to see actually, that got a piece of coverage, right? This is what we need to do. And it's you start learning step by step. And I think that goes for in house people as well. When they're in inside a company, it can be, like you say, so hard to kind of see that actually that really is a story, or that really benefits this type of customer, or all that kind of thing. And you're right, as an external person, we can definitely bring those eyes and that vision and sometimes that enthusiasm, because I think a lot of it is actually being infused about what they're doing. Because I think people get a bit kind of sit down, don't they? Do? You know what I mean? They like, oh, well, you know, my wife doesn't want to hear me talk about this.
Michelle Garrett 13:46
He's like, Well, actually, this is actually quite interesting. Yeah. No, I know somebody appreciates their stories, and, you know, all the details and everything they have to share. And I think that is, I mean, they think that's exciting. It makes it exciting for them. And I find it to be really cool when I can get, kind of pull that out of a client or a customer of theirs or something, you know, when they kind of get them on a roll, you know, and they'll just start going down the path you find you
Ayo Abbas 14:16
are now a nub of, like, you just know, lots of random facts about random topics. Well, me, like, hey, how do you know this? I know well,
Michelle Garrett 14:27
I mean, right now, thank you for bringing this up. Because there's two things. I mean, like, so I've been working with writing content for on an asphalt, of
Ayo Abbas 14:37
all things, on
Michelle Garrett 14:41
highways and things and like how it how the length, the light you know, the lifetime, the lifespan of it, and how you know what makes it safer, and what things you know, what's more ecologically friendly, and just all these things.
Ayo Abbas 14:55
At the moment, isn't that laying roads and. In the more, because I think it was quite wasteful and unsustainable the way it was being done, right? And there's this whole,
Michelle Garrett 15:04
yeah, yeah, because there are things you can put on there to preserve it. And then there's run off and, like, anyway. So see, here I go, I'm going, but, and I, you know, like, it came up at the I started talking, you know, to my kids about at the dinner table, and they're like, Yeah, you know, I know a lot of things that I never really dreamed of, you know, before. And now, when I'm driving, I'm like, oh, like, you know, have it laid this, you know, freeway, like, you know, if they've done anything to preserve it or, like, you know, so it's interesting. I find it really interesting, but I can kind of geek out about stuff like that, you know. So, yeah, and then food, there's a bunch of, you know, of course, there's a lot of about food inspection in the news, and I work in with some food processing companies. And, you know, there's no food company that wants to make consumers sick. Okay, so regardless of whether you know, there are inspectors or standards or they have their own processes, and, no, they do not want to make people sick. So there are things that I know that are helping me feel as a consumer just a little bit less, I guess nervous, because I just see a lot of people really getting, at least in the States, getting kind of nervous about that kind of stuff. And I'm like, Hey, you just think about, you know, companies don't want to hurt people. They don't want to harm anyone to get sued, no, and it's expensive to recover your reputation anyway. So there are all these things. And, I mean, that's, I think it's really, it's cool. And then, you know, like, when things come up in the news, you're like, Yeah, I I get it, like, I kind of, I see, like, I have a different perspective on this. You feel really smart. Sometimes. You're like, wow. But
Ayo Abbas 16:48
also, do you find because you work in PR, like, Can you, can you look at the news and stuff through a normal person's eyes? Or do you because I know, when I was working in house, one of the things I always thought was I just always read the papers and just be like, who's put this story here? Who's planted it, whose angle is this? Like, that's how I used to read the media, because it's this where, that's what I used to see.
Michelle Garrett 17:09
Yeah, I think it's tough, because you can't go without looking at it, right? I mean, when you work in PR, you kind of have to be a news hound a little bit. I think it's the sources that you look at. And I, because I do work with a lot of like, B to B clients, I'm looking more at industry specific news, maybe not some of the more inflammatory or anxiety inducing coverage of things, you know, like, I not that I don't see those things, but I don't like, I can choose to kind of tune out a little bit if I need a break or whatever, but, but there are definitely things going on that are impacting some of the industries that I have clients in. So, I mean, I, you know, I from that perspective, it's good to know, like, you know what, what the word on the street is, as far as you know what, how we're going to be handling different, you know, things that are going on. So definitely, yeah, interesting times. There's no lack of there's nothing boring going on right now. So let's
Ayo Abbas 18:14
please slow down. This is a lot. It
Michelle Garrett 18:18
is. It really is. Gosh, oh my gosh.
Ayo Abbas 18:25
Hi, it's Ayo here, and I just wanted to interrupt the show quickly to say a bit more about what I do. I'm a digitally led marketing consultant, and I specialise in working with built environment firms just like yours. I think there's so much more that AEC firms can do to make the most of the digital marketing opportunity. And if it's something that you would like to explore working with me how to make the best of online and in person world, then do get in touch. Email me at Ayo, which is Ayo@Abbas marketing.com and let's have a chat.
Michelle Garrett 19:01
So the next question that I was going to ask you is about how to kind of draw the stories out. Because it isn't always as easy as, you know. Sometimes, you know, there's a lot more things going on than others in certain industries, and sometimes you kind of have to, you know, you might see something or talk to a client about something. But I feel like sometimes they don't have details, like they're it's hard for them to think the way that we need them to think in order to pull out and share. I sometimes I want numbers. I want how much time they saved, how much money they saved, what how did this change? What they were doing, you know? So I try to ask some I have, you know, like, a set of questions, but then I also have, like, some questions to ask, like to try to draw them out, but sometimes it's just hard to do that. So do you have any
Ayo Abbas 19:50
like with engineers and stuff? But they quite often, engineers don't like giving like this will save you X amount. They find it really hard because there's so. Precise in what they do. So they're like, Oh, you wouldn't say that, you know. So you have to kind of find ways around, like, questioning them, because I think some of these numbers where you're like, okay, so that would cost you how much normally, and how much would that save by this whatever? And I find sometimes they don't want to be that specific for that reason, because they, you know, they're like, I haven't calculated fully, and, you know, so it's, it's numbers are great, if you can get hold of them. But for me, it's questions, just asking loads of questions, you know, why? Why are you doing this? How is it being done? How's it going to benefit the project, the client, or whoever you know, what does that mean? What's the final outcome? You know, like, really, kind of digging in. And I guess when I talk about, I've worked in bids and proposals, and one of the things we'd always go is, so what? So what does that mean? So how does that benefit? And you know that, so what method of just drawing out that real kind of nuggets in the detail? And I think that's when you start to find the gems of really good stories and content. But I think questions are good sometimes, if showing people what's being done by others is another good way what good looks like. You know, here you go. Look, this is what they did. This was probably how they tackled it. You know, just to kind of, because I think once you see something, it's easier to kind of comprehend what you need to do to get there. Otherwise, it can just be a bit too far and a bit too distant. I think so showing them that. And I think as well, like breaking down why things have been done in a certain way, why they work, what parts don't work in some of the stuff that you're seeing externally, and just showing people, I guess again, what good looks like. So I think for me, it's that that type of stuff helps to draw out stories. Yeah,
Michelle Garrett 21:44
I really like that examples of what good looks like. Because, yeah, I mean, if they aren't really familiar with what you're trying to do, you have to kind of maybe show them a couple of examples of what competitors are doing, or just a similar, you know, industry, or someone in a similar industry might be doing. So they have
Ayo Abbas 22:05
actually just that took me back, actually one when I worked in house, I remember that I did a presentation where we had a director who had been speaking at a conference, and then I did a presentation to the engineers in that firm who were like, congratulate them. So I did the presentation. I said that was six months of work. And I took them back, like, from me, pitching that story to me, briefing him to me, doing, you know, like all of the little steps that they hadn't seen, but they would just congratulate him at the end. And I think, making people aware of the fact that if you're going to pitch, like to be a conference speaker, or you're going to be doing all of that kind of stuff, but these are the steps that it takes. And yes, you might need to plan, and then you've got your talking points, and then you don't like and I think people don't always realize how long stuff takes, especially in what we do. So for me, doing that like six months, oh, people don't realise and, you know, that goes for our clients as well. We know when we work with people, they're like, oh, that shouldn't take two minutes. It's like, no.
Michelle Garrett 23:07
Well, I mean, you have to interview multiple people, and then you usually have to get approval if you've talked to people from various, you know, companies or vendors or customers or whatever. So yeah, I think it can, it can, kind of, sometimes it drags out longer than you think, especially if they have to run it by their legal team or whatever. So I try to really plan ahead. The other thing I was just thinking about is that I try to place the clients, you know, the customer stories, sometimes in trade publications and things. And there's one publication that always wants to talk to the customer themselves. They don't want you to just, I mean, you can send over what you've prepared, but they want pictures taken inside the clients, the customers, you know, facility, and they want to speak to the customer. And so that has also kind of shaped a few of the things that we've worked on. Because, you know, if they you know, if the company doesn't get that, they have to go back and ask for it. So it's better to go in with prepared to know, like, what are we going to need to really tell the story? So, and not every company will get permission to do that. Yeah, yeah. But that, I
Ayo Abbas 24:16
mean, that's really important. I think you're right, given them the this is how it works, because they're not going to know that. Yeah, that's huge. That's definitely huge. But I think as well, you know, like, even just stuff like posting to social media, right? Can take you an hour to do it properly. Like, you know, all the different variants, right, all the different formats. Actually, this one has five hashtags that one does this. But then if someone's saying, Oh, it's just two minutes to post to post to social media. It's like, well, no, it's not actually do it properly, is this? And so I do, I do think there is that whole kind of education process and just taking people through what's really involved in doing good work for what you do, yeah,
Michelle Garrett 24:54
because there can just, there can be a lot of things that they didn't really think about. And I do think you. Know, to the social media point, it's like people just think you're just gonna, you know, pop it up there, and I'm like, Yeah, well,
Ayo Abbas 25:08
you might want to worry
Michelle Garrett 25:12
well. And half the time you get to that point. I mean, I find this to be true too. Or, you know, even with pitching a story, I'll be like, Well, where are the visuals like we don't have, you know, again, I've tried to get them to think, like, through this, when they are at the the customer's facility or whatever, or if they can't get permission to do that, we have to think of something else, you know, like, Okay, well, what else can we send? Because the visuals are super important. I know, for trade publications, they always want photos, and even if they don't ask, I like to send some because chances are they're going to use them. And it's the captions. You can put branding in the captions. And I just have always nice,
Ayo Abbas 25:47
isn't it in the magazine?
Michelle Garrett 25:50
Yeah, oh, yeah. So it's just something, and sometimes the clients are not thinking about that stuff. And so it is. It's kind of a training like you have to, kind of, I won't, I don't want to make it sound like, but, but you are you education is a better, a better way to say it. But you are trying to help them understand what you need to be successful on their behalf, I guess so. How about on the topic of examples? Let's talk about, if you can, you share a couple of, you know, compelling stories that you've uncovered while you've been working with clients that you think are
Ayo Abbas 26:29
so, yeah, that's a couple I did. I'm currently coming to the end of a rebrand at the moment, and what's been quite nice is like interviewing the founders and just really start to understand their business, what makes them stand out? And having those conversations, which I find when I'm working with founders, especially startups, they don't necessarily realize what makes them special. So actually, kind of having those conversations, you know, why did you set up? What was your story? What did you think wasn't working in the market? That's all fantastic stuff for a rebrand, but it's also that's amazing content, then using marketing campaigns afterwards. So I think running kind of campaigns like that, and just working with founders and just really getting those stories out about why they set the business, what really drives them, their values, their purpose. I think all of that can lead to so so much rich content. And I find when I do those types of brainstorms with people. That's probably where the biggest kind of nuggets of gold come from and the best stories. So yeah, that's what I'm doing at the moment. I've done others where I've worked with, you know, people who are trying to break a new market. So like, I did a thing with a company called minimass where they had like 3D printed concrete beams, where they use, like, a third, less concrete, really interesting, innovative product. But actually, when you start speaking about to the founders, about, you know, why they've done it, why they set up again, it's more of those amazing stories, but also working with them to understand, I guess, how to tackle different audiences and what they all want, really kind of looking at things like things like micro influencers in the industry, it could help them to get their story out there and who they need to connect with to take them to the next stage of where they wanted to be with their startup. So that's the kind of stuff that I've been doing that's kind of interesting, and those much deeper and richer conversations, definitely.
Michelle Garrett 28:17
Yeah, I think those are great examples, because, you know, they again, it's like, I just don't know that people would ever think about, you know, the some of the stuff that's going on. I mean, there's a lot of coverage of stuff that maybe, you know, is, like overdone, like we see too many stories about things, but then there's all these things that are going on that nobody really liked the 3d I just, man, I'm not sure that there's a lot enough about that, you know. And no,
Ayo Abbas 28:45
but it's actually, you can start to look at it, and you think we do need to use less concrete. We do need to be more sustainable, like you said about the asphalt, right? And it's, yeah, people are looking at, how do we change these materials, and how we're using them? And that will apply globally, you know, that's a huge thing. If you can start, you know, start to change how we use these materials. Because, like, you know, sustainability, climate change, all of that stuff is there, even if you're in America, but, but you know what I mean? So, yeah, that those stories really do resonate with me, because I think we can really move the needle on terms of our industries, and I think that's really important. So yeah,
Michelle Garrett 29:23
and again, back to the point of, regardless of what you know, anybody else may be doing, the government, the industries themselves, we've got things that are going to make them more sustainable. Or, I think a lot of people you know, just in the industry, are going to be, you know, interested in things that they can do that are, you know, they maybe it falls under, you know, ESG or whatever, but, you know, maybe efficiency, that's what it is. Yeah, yeah, more efficient
Ayo Abbas 29:55
use of resources and time and effort, right? And technology can do that. That just different ways of applying what they doing. So I think that there's a whole strand of that stuff, which, regardless of your political views, which just makes perfect business sense. So, yeah, yes, yeah.
Michelle Garrett 30:11
So what we're going to continue to see industries innovate and do things that make sense, because it doesn't like again, it there. They want to make money and they want to serve their customers, and customers, you know, want more sustainable solutions and things. So, I mean, regardless, we're gonna see that of what's going on. So thank you. Tom so we're, I'm all about repurposing content for clients and myself. I just, I feel like that's just an important you know. And I know sometimes people get tired of hearing that term, but it really cannot be, you know. I don't think we can talk about that enough, because, again, I feel like a lot of times you work really hard on a piece of content. We've talked about how much time it could take and how much effort it could take, yeah, and it goes up maybe on their website or maybe on social media, and then it's like, okay, that's like, nothing else. Like, what else you gonna do with that? So let's talk about that a little
Ayo Abbas 31:08
bit. I think for me, one of the things is, like, you say you spend a lot of time producing takes a long time to produce a good piece of content, right? And I think if you only are sharing about it once on social media or something, then you're missing out on a huge opportunity to get your story out there. And I think you've got to look at kind of multiple ways to post in multiple formats, multiple times, and to really kind of just get it so that, you know, you could pull a quote out of a piece, you could just take the headlines out of a piece. You could make a carousel. You could turn into a podcast episode. You could, you know, so I think there are so many ways that you can take a piece of content and really share it. And each time, you could just be directing straight back to that blog piece, straight back to that blog piece. And I think if you kind of bear in mind that, you know, especially with the algorithms nowadays, what are they doing on LinkedIn, you know, it's shown to a small amount of your followers. Then if people engage with it, then they might be shown to more, but ultimately, it's never shown to everybody you're connected with. So actually, posting something multiple times in different ways will appeal to different audiences, right? And different people will be online. So I think we've just got to get away from you've just got a it's a one hit wonder. You just post once and that's it. It's like, well, no, actually, how else can you do this? And you know, you could phase that over a while, you know, a number of weeks, you know, once a week, linking that black blog post. You know, there's nothing to stop you doing that. Have it as a carousel, you know, have it as a podcast episode. So just lots of ways of just driving that traffic. And I think once you start to get that out there more, then your messages will resonate more as well.
Michelle Garrett 32:41
Yeah, no, I love that. Because, again, I feel like we just, you know, plop it up there. You work so hard, you know, and a lot of people, a lot of hands, a lot of interviews, a lot of, you know, time and effort. And then it's just like, Okay, here it is. And then, but you're right, like, I think we have to get over this in our heads. Sometimes too. It's like, we think we've posted about it, so we can't post about it again. But I think if you're creative in the way that you do it, I mean, even if somebody did see it two or three times, so what like, I mean, times does it take for something
Ayo Abbas 33:12
to resonate with somebody and stick in their minds? It's more than once. It's way more than once. Yeah, you know, well,
Michelle Garrett 33:18
there used to be the advice like, you don't want to just share the same exact thing across social media platforms, either. So I feel like, if you can just, you know, change it up a little bit even, I think it's fine, and you are going to get hit different audiences. And it's important to know where your audiences are spending time, or your primary audiences. And I like to try to repurpose content for clients in trade publications sometimes. So even if it's already on their site, we can still pitch it as a, you know, customer story, or maybe thought leadership piece, or so nice, and then you Oh,
Ayo Abbas 33:55
publications all right with that, because here, that would be a bit funny. Yeah, it would be. It's slightly different here. Hey, I would need to go in your trade publication and then onto your website. Because it's on your website, it's kind of
Michelle Garrett 34:07
like it's already out of the bag. Yeah, maybe nobody saw it. You know, I've done it both ways, as long as it's okay to republish it after it's appeared. I think that's also fine, but I just feel like it, you can get a lot more out of it, because then once it shows up in the trade publication, you can share that across social and that's like a definitely a different piece of content than the one that might have already been on your site or whatever. So I just, I like to consider it anyway and see if there's stuff that we can do that you can't always do it, but
Ayo Abbas 34:43
no, no, but it's worth it. It's worth it. Just like you say, it's a lot of time, isn't it?
Michelle Garrett 34:48
Yes. And I mean the trade, some of the trade publications that I work with for clients are just, you know, they need their very small staff, and they need content. And so yeah, if you can provide a. To literally, like, package it up in an email with the visuals and the written, you know, story. And they'll, it'll, they'll run, they'll often just run it and then, I mean, like, it, you just kind of make it easy for them. But it's not, you know, it's not that there wasn't a lot of work that went into getting ready for that. But you definitely can do that in some cases, again,
Michelle Garrett 35:26
I don't know if there's what other points you'd like
Ayo Abbas 35:30
to share. I don't know. I mean, I mean to me, for me, there aren't really boring industries. I mean, I love what I do. So your title was misleading. Don't know that's it really, I mean, yeah, I think you can find an interest in most, most topics. To be honest, even I can definitely,
Michelle Garrett 35:48
yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. So I, and I, I don't, I know that sometimes when I talk about what I do there, I can just see people kind of be like, like, you know, like, they're not, it's not exciting, you know, because I think, I think when they think of PR, they think of like they do think of beauty or fashion or, you know, like parties or whatever. And I'm like, you know, it's not all like that. And that's, you know, I kind of have made a career out of working with companies that you know, are not in that space, and I really have found it to be pretty fun and rewarding and always, never boring. So that's for sure. That's awesome. Yeah, no, I agree. Well, I think, unless there's anything else, I think we should maybe leave it there. And yeah, and I'll be back in a couple of weeks, and I have a guest that I'll be announcing soon, so I hope people can join us for that, and I want to thank Ayo so much for being here. I'll put your website up again, just so people can pop in there and check out all of your you have a podcast too. I have two,
Ayo Abbas 37:05
two podcasts. I have two podcasts. So I have one called the built environment Marketing Show, which is where I interview architects and engineers about how they market their companies. And then I also have one which I do for a client, which is about integrated transport delivery. So I interview people who are helping to kind of deliver the infrastructure across the UK. Oh, that's, that's incredible, yeah, so I do that, so I host and produce team. Well, that's a lot
Michelle Garrett 37:31
of work, right there. So,
Ayo Abbas 37:34
but yeah, no, I told you, I love content. So, yeah, no, I really do. So it's good, it's good fun, yeah,
Michelle Garrett 37:39
yeah. Well, I hope everybody will check those out and follow you on LinkedIn and take a look at your site. And, yeah, oh, yeah. Well, and honestly, Ayo is one of the most approachable and lovely people that you will ever meet on social media and maybe in real life. Someday, I don't know, maybe we'll be able to you were talking about coming to the UK, weren't you? I have talked about it. Yeah, my daughter and I were thinking about doing that, but I don't know if we're gonna make it this summer, but eventually, some point, yeah, make it back over. So no worries. Anyway. Thanks so much for having me on. Thank you, Ayo.
Ayo Abbas 38:22
Thanks so much for listening to the built environment marketing show. Don't forget to check out the show notes, which will have useful links and resources connected to this episode. You can find that on www.abbasmarketing.com and of course, if you like the show, please do share it with others on social as it helps more people to find us see you soon. You
