Ep 30: Marketing models: Groups/online programmes with Nikita Morell and Sara Kolata
Hello and welcome to Marketing In Times of Recovery, the bi-weekly built environment marketing podcast. And I’m your host Ayo Abbas, founder and director of Abbas Marketing.
Welcome to the first of my very special three-part series that will look at Marketing Models: Different Ways To Get Your Marketing Done.
The idea for this mini-series came from the fact that many built environment practices think the only way to get your marketing done is via someone in-house or an expensive agency.
In this first episode we take a look at group and online programme by interviewing Nikita Morell and Sara Kolata who share why they think this is the marketing model for the future.
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Abbas Marketing
Nikita Morell
Sara Kolata
Transcript.
Ayo Abbas 00:04
Hello and welcome to Marketing in Times of Recovery, the built environment marketing podcast. And I'm your host Ayo Abbas from Abbas Marketing. I know it can be overwhelming to know where to start when it comes to getting your marketing done. So this special miniseries is going to look at some of the alternatives; different ways that you can get your marketing done, basically. And here we are with part one, which looks at group and online programmes. My guests for this episode are Nikita Morell and Sara Kolata. We take a close look at what grouping online programmes are, how they work, and how you can benefit as a practice. Anyway, that's enough of an intro for me. So let's head over to hear the conversation with Sarah and Nikita. Enjoy. Hi, and welcome to Marketing in Times of Recovery. And today we've got not one but two special guests. So we've got Nikita and Sara. Nikita, do you wanna introduce yourself who you are and what you do?
Nikita Morell 01:07
Sure, yeah. So thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. So my name is Nikita Morell. And I'm a copywriter and marketing strategist for architects. So yes, I specialise, especially in website copy, just helping architects get the right words on their website, so they can get a steady stream of ridiculously good projects.
Ayo Abbas 01:31
Fantastic. And Sara, would you like to introduce yourself as well?
Sara Kolata 01:33
Sure, thank you so much for having me. My name is Sara Kolata. And I am an architect. And I also do business development for architects. I'm specifically fascinated by the digital world, digital transformation. And so how you can use the internet to basically position yourself better online and do better sales and marketing for yourself as an architect.
Ayo Abbas 02:00
Fantastic. And thank you both for coming on the show. So today, we're gonna be looking at online programmes, groups and communities to help get your marketing done. So for me, like I just said, when we when we spoke earlier, I follow a lot of female founders on Instagram. And actually a lot of the collective and group programmes is quite a common thing. So for me, what this series really wanted to do was actually bring out some of the different ways that people can be marketing themselves. And actually for practices to consider because it's not always that you have to have someone in house, or you have to be paying an agency. So I really wanted this episode to really showcase that. So Nikita, can you tell me a bit about Site Smart and what you're doing with that programme that you set up last year?
Nikita Morell 02:43
Yeah, sure. So I'll quickly give a recap as to why I started it. And that was because originally, I had one service that was just offering one on one copywriting to architects. And then about two years ago, I launched the Architects Wordshop, which is just a lot of toolkits to help architects write different parts of their website, and it was very much a DIY, so you just buy the toolkit and you work through it yourself. But what I found was that I needed something in the middle. A lot of architects were buying these toolkits and saying, 'Oh, hey, Nikita, I'm working on it, but I just feel like I need some extra support or someone to hold me accountable. I'm not in the position to afford your copywriting services right now. So what can we do?' So that's kind of where the idea of Site Smart was born. And what it is, is it's a 12 week get-it-done website accelerator. So it's a small group accelerator. So at the moment, I'm just about to launch the next round. But it's limited to 12 people, or 12 architects, and these are mainly solo practitioners or smaller firm architects. So across those 12 weeks, every two weeks there's a new module that's dropped. And that could be writing your homepage tagline, your about page, everything. And then there's fortnightly group calls on that as well. So yeah, I mean, I can go on a bit more. But yeah, that's just the general gist of what Site Smart is.
Ayo Abbas 04:15
And so Sara what have you been offering in terms of online and group space, I see that you do seven day challenges and things like that. How does it work for you?
Sara Kolata 04:25
Yeah, so I actually have two programmes as well. One of them, the first one I created, is the Architecture-Masterclass, Online Course Creation for Architects. And now the 7 Day Challenge is somehow a little bit related to what Nikita is doing. So Nikita's helping you create your website, and I'm questioning how are you going to get your leads onto that website? Who's going to visit it because a website is much like a business card and if you don't go around giving it away? Question is how are you going to get those visitors in that traffic on that website? And so this 7 Day Challenge actually is helping you get leads. And we go into a little bit of digital marketing, we do lead pages and advertising, the lead magnets, but we also build you a CRM system that can collect those leads and introduce you to the basics of digital marketing and email marketing, so how to follow up with leads. So it's sort of like, it's wrapping up the the presence of the website, which is more of Nikita's expertise, and what I do is how do you drive the traffic through it? And how do you then capture those leads and follow up with them to actually nourish your relationship with your potential clients? And that's what the 7 Day Challenge is.
Ayo Abbas 05:49
That's brilliant. I mean, I always say that people always think a website ends once you launch it, but to me, it really doesn't. How are you actually going to feed this thing? How are you going to keep it alive? What are you going to do to keep people coming to it, and keep it going and keep it changing and ever changing? Because that's how you're going to get up the rankings. That's what you're gonna do. It needs to be a live element. So completely, and it's true. I love the way that actually Nikita's on the design, getting it built and the copy and words and then you're actually how do you actually feed it and keep it going, which I think is all it's all intertwined. But actually, there's two sides to that when it comes to online marketing. So I guess, in terms of what are the kind of some of the benefits to practices who are going more down this group programme online route? Can I kick off with you Nikita? What do you think the benefits are for them?
Nikita Morell 06:39
Yeah, sure. I think, what I found actually, funny story I, in the beginning, I didn't put a Slack group as part of the programme, because I thought, are architects gonna have the time to get on that, but week one into it everyone started saying, well, Nikita, how do we communicate with each other? So I said, that's what the group calls are for. And they actually asked me for it. So I set that up. And it was one of the best parts of the course almost, because what happens is, is you get a room full of really smart, like minded architects that, they're all quite forward thinking, they get marketing, they get ideal clients and all that kind of thing. And they just bounced ideas around and I guess, in all honesty, I'm not an architect, I just don't have what it takes. I wish I did. But my strength lies in copywriting and marketing. So it was actually really great to have ideas coming from architects who are living and breathing it, and then I could overlay my copywriting and marketing experience on that. So it's definitely just bouncing around ideas, getting through challenges. And I guess one thing I should have mentioned is part of the course is we work through all the material, but at the end of those 12 weeks, everyone submits what they've written to me for critique, so they can feel confident to put those words live on the website. So a lot of them got quite nervous. And that leads me to my next point, so obviously, having everyone in a group there is that collaboration on them. But I think what really works in from my kind of perspective is the accountability, websites, marketing, these are things that drop off, and they're the last thing people want to do, right? Especially when pretty much everyone who was in the course was like, 'Oh, I was tweaking it for years and I've been meaning to do it, I just can't get it done.'
Ayo Abbas 08:41
You don't make it go live it's literally there, it's done. This is me. I just don't wanna press the button.
Nikita Morell 08:51
Always I would say like, tough love, and people kind of dropped off, obviously, I get it, client projects come up, life gets in the way, people get sick, whatever, but I was there. And that's why I do the minute to 12. Because it means that I can say, 'Oh, hey, I've just noticed, what are you struggling with?' And keep them going, keep that momentum going so that they can actually walk away and say yes, I did it.
Ayo Abbas 09:15
What I find interesting about what you've just said is I remember some of your posts before you started Site Smart, and you weren't even sure that people would be able to collaborate in the same way, were you? You weren't sure. And I remember you doing those posts where you're like, do architects talk to each other? Well, they do.
Nikita Morell 09:33
I think I was like architects suck at sharing.
Ayo Abbas 09:39
It's interesting to see that you found the like minded people who are sharing and working together because I find that some of my best collaborations are with fellow marketers like you guys. Actually that's a good source of leads for me if people are busy and stuff like that. So I think this whole collaboration thing I really do think it's a really important part for most people nowadays and we've just got to embrace it. So Sara, same for you, what do you think the benefits are of people who do things like your seven day challenge and things like that? I mean, what do you think they get out of it?
Sara Kolata 10:13
Just like Nikita mentioned, I was a little bit worried as well, whether the programme is not a little bit busy for architects, because if you think about architects, they've put so much energy to learn design and a lot of other aspects to deliver these projects. And then here I am teaching them a lot of new stuff, lead generation, Digital Marketing, Business Development, sales, and I think a lot of those concepts are new. But what I found, and of course, there's been mentioned, as well is that a lot of times people that join these courses are the ones that actually say, 'You know what, I know I've got to do the work, this isn't me hiring someone to do it, I know I have to do the work. And I have to somehow actually join that challenge and make the end line of it.' And so I think that people will understand from the beginning that this is going to be how this programme is delivered. And then I noticed that there was a lot of interaction happening between the other participants to the point where people are actually developing friendships. The accountability aspect is extremely important. I've noticed that as well, it takes a load off my shoulders to like, maybe in a one on one consulting, if some of my clients are not doing the work, I have to like, have that conversation being like, you know, if you don't actually implement that, we can't really quite move forward. This isn't like we sitting down here in the session, and having a conversation, it needs to be implemented in your business, you have to put the time into it. But I find that and yes, of course, there's people that will drop off the programmes. But I think that a lot of people benefit from that sort of group dynamic. And another aspect, which is really interesting is because we're learning new things, the ability of the different minds and different creative businesses to come together, it gives you also that idea of diversity of how people can actually apply those elements. So you're bringing them into a structure of how marketing works, and you're giving them a blueprint, and then each of them applies it to their business differently. And so I'll find that some people will decide to do one on one consulting, other people will create the online courses, other people will actually be like, 'Oh, I've learned about positioning, maybe I'm actually going to publish a book or go out and get more lectures and more public speaking gigs, create new collaborations, so I can get myself out there.' So everyone will somehow adapted to their personality in their business. And so the different elements of it are implemented differently. And I think people see how that can flourish for you, and see how there's a benefit in each of these strategies. And so I think that's really useful, that I couldn't probably do on my own. It's just that sort of thing that happens through that group dynamic that spontaneous learning for everyone.
Ayo Abbas 13:04
So do you think there are any drawbacks in doing these types of group courses and online. I guess we already touched on it a bit in terms of life can get in the way with COVID and everything else we've all got to kind of deal with? Do you think there's any drawbacks of working in this? Is it not right, for some people, Nikita?
Nikita Morell 13:23
Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's a good question. I think one thing I did find is sometimes architects can be like anyone can be quite introverted and may not feel comfortable. For example, in my course, there's fortnightly group calls. So that's their opportunity to come and pick my brain on anything and get live copy critiques, and whatever. But I found a few of the architects kind of sit aside, they didn't feel as comfortable to contribute to those sessions. But then, I guess, something that could be a drawback, but then I guess I've got Slack to take one on one with me. And then just this second round that I'm introducing, I'm also introducing a bonus where they can have two one on one calls with me as well. So, that could be a drawback in terms of everyone behaves in group situations differently, so maybe you don't feel as confident to raise your questions and ideas. That could be a drawback.
Ayo Abbas 14:22
I guess you're giving people different choices aren't you, but you've got different ways of communicating. So you can pick the ones that you want and engage where you feel comfortable, I guess. And do you see any drawbacks? Sara?
Sara Kolata 14:37
Yeah, I think, speaking from a business perspective, one has to understand that there's group dynamics that are designed specifically for people that perhaps are not ready or do not want to invest in one on one coaching. And so the way I explained it is that when you come into a mastermind or a group course, you pay a fixed price for the result and you just sign up for that experience, usually those are products that are obviously cheaper, because you'll have to do the work. That's the reason why is because I will present you with the structure, but you have to do the work. And if you just listen to the course and not do the work, you're not going to get the results that this course promises because you have to implement it. Now, I do also do one on one coaching, and I have a lot of clients that choose that because they know that we'll sit down together, approach your business bespokely. But of course, that comes with a price because I'm then putting 100% of my attention to one client. And then there's also a possibility where I come in and do it all for you. So we'll set you up with all these different systems to generate leads to capture them for your email marketing, give you templates, teach you how to manage it, or actually work directly with communications, a marketing team, to implement it. And then that obviously again comes with a price because that's when I have to mobilise my team to deliver that product. So I find that thing that this really kind of relates to a type of person, a person perhaps that either wants to learn everything on their own, because they're a sole practitioner or freelancer, and they do understand that the full sense of responsibility of running the business and doing business development falls on their shoulders, and they want to get better. And that was certainly me when I was starting my business. That's also why as an architect, I learned about business and marketing, because I wasn't too good at it, you know. And then there's people that are so busy, and they also have probably a bigger turnover in the business and the bigger team and they say, I actually want you to come in and ship that thing for us and implement that. And so that's a different type of customer. And I think that they just gets defined by how people decide to proceed with it. Drawbacks, I think it's people sometimes get emotional when buying, they understand they have a problem, and they want to solve it. But sometimes are maybe not ready to make the commitment to fully implement those programmes. And it does take time, it requires you to be systematic with your work, and commit them 10 weeks and sometimes longer. Because once you implement that system, of course, then it becomes a part of your life, it's like as if you started an Instagram account, posted on it a few times and then just dropped it right? No, you do the work, and then you have to continue. So I think it's certainly the drawback is that perhaps people, like Nikita said, fall out because of the responsibilities, the systematic nature of these courses. But I do think also that it takes a little bit of determination to implement on your own, but then it makes you a better business person, because you've learned those things for yourself. Even if you grow and outpost to someone else, you're able to overlook that and actually understand what's happening in your business. Whilst sometimes, we get clients who say, 'Okay, well, we would like for you to come in and do say, for example, an advertising campaign or lead generation campaign and then install the CRM.' And they think that just by paying monthly for having the software that's going to just generate leads on your own. It's like no, the software is there to collect your leads, you have to continue doing your marketing campaigns. That's sort of the misunderstanding. And I've found a lot of times people are like, well, we've paid for the software, it's not doing anything for me, and it's like, yeah, just subscribe to something, you need to learn how to use it now. It's a tool. And so I think that it really takes that investment in learning about this. And it is definitely benefiting for people to learn on their own, because it makes you a better marketer, and a better salesperson. So you actually take better control of your business eventually.
Ayo Abbas 19:08
Yeah. And I think it does do, you're right. It does give you that understanding. I'm actually wondering, as an industry, are we ready for masterminds challenges, online programmes, all of that kind of community building thing? Because that's the language I hear on social media in other sectors, but the built environment, not so much. I'm wondering, are we ready for this yet? Nikita, are you doing your time?
Nikita Morell 19:27
No, I think we are. It's just it hasn't hit the mainstream, right? The reason why you're making this podcast, right, like we're trying to get the word out that I mean, I think a lot of people, they just go on get a quote from a service provider, they can't afford it. So then they just go back to doing what they always do. And they think well, I don't have a solution for me. So I hope through collaboration and more of these programmes that it becomes the norm. I feel like there's a lot of us that I think would really benefit from creating programmes of what we're doing one on one to help and service more people.
Ayo Abbas 20:08
Because the market's definitely there. And we know it is, there's so many small practices and so many people actually that, I guess in some ways, it's like knowing the kind of basic foundations and that's kind of what it is, once you know that you like you say, Sara, you can then feed yourself, you can keep it going, you can go right, this is how I do. This is what I'm really into. This is what I'm good at, each month I need to put out, and you just kind of get into that river more. And I think you're absolutely right, but it's getting those foundations right in the first place, setting your website up correctly so that you get SEO traffic, then you start building it in the right way. And I think that's probably where we could probably add the most value. But you're right, it is harder on the one on one basis to afford us.
Sara Kolata 20:47
I have to disagree with all of this. I find that the architecture industry is not quite ready to adapt into these particular methods of digital transformation. And I find that it takes a huge level of education around what I'm doing, and the products that it provides to convince architects that this is a good idea. And I think that that really shows to like, speaks to the fact that we're very traditional industry. And we are very stuck in our old ways. And historically, actually for us marketing was even illegal. We're not supposed to be doing marketing for architecture practices. And I think that a lot of people are like, 'Oh, why, what's really the benefit here in this', but the benefit is tremendous. And I think that it really solves the problems of many architects, which has to do with, getting the right clients and landing the right projects, and actually moving your business in the direction where you want to go rather than just sort of being taken on the journey. And so it really speaks to taking control. But I do find that with masterminds, digital coaching, actually, even paying for Consultancy Services, a lot of architects don't, they're not used to that, not as much as for example, when we buy into an app to take fitness classes online, or when we attend conferences in maybe business topics or other tech topics online. So it's still, I think, on the rise, and I wouldn't say that we're completely doubting it. I think that there is a lot of efforts that our community of people that provide those services have to put into educating the community. And, and I really hope that that changes in the future that people were realised more and more so specifically, in our industry, of course, that digital programmes, like these conferences, and the podcast, they hold a lot of wisdom, and they can educate you. And that there's a new way to consume knowledge as well. But not just through listening to podcasts, but also actually participating in these courses.
Ayo Abbas 23:03
I love listening to podcasts.
Nikita Morell 23:05
I completely agree with you, Sara. But I think also what I'm finding is that there's almost two groups of architects, there's these emerging younger kind of cohort, and I'm finding a lot of them, they've grown up with branding and marketing, I find them a lot more open minded to doing these things. And then not only that, I also find that some of the older architects who may have been around when marketing was illegal, and all that. Some of them, that younger generation is now taking over their practice, you know, whether it's a family member, or they've sold their practice. So I find a lot of them are almost getting educated internally, I've got a few clients at the moment where, or even in the last cohort where there was a son that was taking over the father's practice, and he was like, 'Dad, you need to do this', so I do feel like, of course, we can educate, but I think, I don't know, I'm finding even just compared to like two or three years ago, there's definitely been from my perspective been more. Yeah, and as you said Sara, I hope it keeps rising.
Ayo Abbas 24:12
We've just got to speed it up a bit right. The last two years has helped us though, because all those people who have sort of said, 'Oh, no, we only do stuff in person'. It's like, well, we can't. This is it, Zoom was a new thing for the built environment, when it's been in tech for how many years? So I do think, definitely stuff is sped up and people have been forced online. But I think as people are having to get on with it now and get out and about I think that's the big challenge of actually people are gonna go, 'Oh, I don't wanna do digital anymore. I don't like it.' I think that's kind of where we're going. Okay, so, can you share a success story from your Site Smart programme then Nikita, where it's worked for a practice where you can say this has really helped them and their business and what they're doing.
Nikita Morell 25:00
Yeah, so definitely one participant that comes to mind was Bari Reid and he's awesome. He's based in the UK and he came into Site Smart and he said, 'Look, I know I need to focus down.' And that's actually one module, the first module of Site Smart we just really uncover what your practice stands for. So I think we've spoke about this before, but I'm big on your practice standing for something, it doesn't have to be a topology, it could be a design philosophy, it could be whatever it is. But he came and he was just kind of like, 'Look, my website is a mess. I'm so embarrassed by it. Like, whenever anyone asks me to see it, I just kind of mumble something or just like, send them my one page.' So then pretty much throughout the course, he really put his mind to it. And he said, 'You know, I'm going to really own whiskey distillery, the architecture of whiskey distilleries.'
Ayo Abbas 25:55
So niche but lovely.
Nikita Morell 25:57
Awesome, I was like 'yes'! We worked together and the copy was all about bringing spirit into every building.
Ayo Abbas 26:05
Doing all the puns!
Nikita Morell 26:10
Yeah, and even just his process, one of the modules inside smart, we talk about, really how to communicate what you do but how you do it - how much value that adds. So we came up with a cocktail, like a whiskey cocktail recipe, but really superimposed on that was the steps on how to get this building down. It was brilliant, he walked away. I actually haven't checked his website, whether he's actually put the copy. But when it came time to review it, I just remember sitting there and I just felt like a proud mum. Like I was like, Yes. From where he started where the copy on his website, there was no tone of voice, there was no personality. It was just could have been anything.
Ayo Abbas 26:59
It's funny, because even you just saying, from a marketing brain I'm like, 'Oh, my God, you can him imagine doing like, if he needs to send stuff out direct mails, you can send out cocktails', you know what I mean? You could just see all this stuff. And like, people would just be like, Oh, that's Bari.
Nikita Morell 27:15
Yeah, and that was part of the calls, right? Like, all of the participants had their one thing. And it was so exactly like these kind of conversations, were just, it was almost a form of entertainment. I loved hopping on these calls, because we just brainstorm things. And yeah, it was I think a definite success story. And there were lots like that, but Bari's definitely comes to mind.
Ayo Abbas 27:38
That's great, a whiskey distillery! And Sara, have you got a success story you can share?
Sara Kolata 27:48
So I really love the process of when I work with architects when they have this 'aha!' moment of actually understanding how to implement all these different systems into creating perhaps a better communication strategy for themselves to communicate what they actually want to do and where they're going. And, to that I've been working with this architect who's over 60, in San Francisco, and he's got quite an acute portfolio of work, actually, throughout California. But mainly, he's been doing a lot of residential, and sort of smaller commercial. And he wanted still to very much sort of coming from that school of thought of like Steven Hall and had a dream of building that, you know, big public buildings that I think most architects always dream about, like that one project that you really want to show your character, maybe not necessarily have to stick to box design. And so that's when he came to me. And the whole process of working with him was fascinating, because he had a lot of different more traditional understanding around sales and marketing and building networks throughout San Francisco. But through a few first sessions, we just identified a better receivers group, a better audience for him, and took action towards developing relationships. And I remember one of the first sessions that we had together, we spoke about what would be his dream project, and it's like, I want to work with a real visionary. I'd love to build something for Elon Musk. And I was like, whoa, okay. That was really aiming super high, but anyway, we did actually start developing a relationship with more of the tech people from Silicon Valley. And next thing you know, it really didn't take long, a month and a half, I guess. He's jumping on a call like, 'I literally just got commissioned to do warehouse building for Tesla'. It's like how is this even possible? I don't even exactly know what we did because it was just sort of back and forth.
Ayo Abbas 29:59
It's mixing in the right circles, right? It's actually mixing in those right circles. Basically, it's like, I want to be in that tech space. And this is what I want to be doing. I think that's the thing, it's like, who are those people that exist in that tech space? And that's your focus.
Sara Kolata 30:14
Focussing and that sharpness of actually knowing what you're going for, but then also aligning your communication strategy to this because we changed his LinkedIn taglines, we changed his website communications, we had a completely different approach to actually landing those conversations and approaching people, and I think that when you know, who you want to talk to, who you want to attract. And actually what you want to get out of it. The conversation is more laser sharp. And that's also not only through, live talking, live interaction, but also digitally, it really affects your communication. I think that Nikita can speak volumes to that because what you put online, it's almost like who you're shouting out for. It's like, 'Hey everyone look at me', no, i's like that one person I want to work with and who that person is, I think there's real power to that. And then also really strategizing, making a plan as to how you're gonna proceed with getting what you want and so yeah, that was really powerful. I couldn't believe that myself.
Ayo Abbas 31:19
It is really funny, though. But you're absolutely right. But I think a lot of people worry about that in terms of if I niche too far or too focused. That means that everyone else is gonna be repelled, but not necessarily. People are still attracted to you. It's just that you're being a lot more clear about who you are and what it is that you want to do. And I think that's a huge thing for everybody, isn't it. So, absolutely, that's some awesome stories. And so on to my next question. So how do you get the most out of working in the group online programmes? What do you need to do as a participant? What do you need to be like or act like Nikita?
Nikita Morell 31:58
I think, yeah, there's not really about I guess, being yourself. But I think the biggest thing probably is, the hardest part problem is the consistency in carving out that time just to be and keep up that momentum. A lot of architects, the first question they ask me is, how many hours am I going to have to spend on this per week, you know, that scares them because they're busy, they're time poor. So I usually say it's one to two hours. And I've actually designed that Site Smart. so these toolkits, you can either do bit by bit every night, you know, take 20 minutes here, or you can just smash through it in one chunk of your Sunday morning coffee. So I guess, to get the most out of it, it really, as Sara said, you just have to put in the work. And you have to kind of go in with that mindset of, I'm going to have to do something. Because that, especially in Site Smart where I'm giving you critiques, and that it's good to have, even if it's just the bones of what you want to say. It allows me to give you that live critique all the way through. Some of the best participants, or the ones that probably got the most benefit from Site Smart. Were the ones that turned up to the group calls with just real draft copy, and they want to hear what do you think of this? And that's all kind of got on we brainstorm taglines, open lines, call to actions, whatever it was.
Ayo Abbas 33:27
So they were prepared, basically. I think that's the word isn't it because put in what you get out really don't you.
Nikita Morell 33:35
Doing their homework.
Ayo Abbas 33:37
Do you want to add to that Sara?
Sara Kolata 33:40
Yeah, so, I think for me, it very much like Nikita just said, I mean, I was aware that I'm creating programmes for very busy people. So the actual videos are short, they're about maximum 10-20 minutes. And then there is print out stuff that you need to fill in like a workbook. And it doesn't take so much to do that. But I think it's very crucial to show up on calls and to sort of try to be regular because I find that psychologically, even when you miss out on few modules, or perhaps a few calls, and you just feel like you're behind and you can't catch up and it's the sort of pressure of that making you feel like, perhaps you're not updated on everything. So I think showing up for course, is very important. And then taking, maybe that's one afternoon over the weekend to catch up or just doing 20 minutes or up to an hour a day, depending on how deep you want to go into it. But yeah, I would say sort of being regular, is probably what can be the best measure of success towards the end and the results will show for themselves because you've got to put the work and it will by all means that will bring you results.
Ayo Abbas 35:02
So if you're someone who's thinking actually group online programmes is what I'm looking for, what things should they be looking at before they sign up? Or what should they be looking for from a provider? Any ideas, hints and tips, Nikita, apart from obviously sign up to you.
Nikita Morell 35:18
Yeah, I think it's just that credibility, just make sure that that provider maybe has been working on architects have been working on their craft, they've also been working and investing in extending their knowledge, so that they can be the best teacher. And I think that's one thing is I, you know, again, like, I'm not an architect, I'm also not a qualified teacher. So that's also been a learning curve for me, but I think passion is a big thing. I am so passionate, I guess even the motivation of why they've created the course. And the reason I made this course was so I could help more architects who can't afford one on one services. So I think that's probably what I would look for in a course provider.
Ayo Abbas 36:13
Anything from you Sara in terms of what people should look for, in terms of going to the online route?
Sara Kolata 36:19
Yeah, I think it's really important to feel some kind of connection with the person that's creating the course and running it. And I think both Me and Nikita and a lot of other people in this industry understand the importance of presenting your story and talking about who you are. And I think that if you feel connected it's going to be a good place for you. So you need to have that sort of level of respect, perhaps to the creator. And then the other thing I would say is just check on testimonials, see what else these people are doing in the digital world, online, everything, you can find everything you know, about a person, their personal Instagram, their podcasts, and I would say in some respects, like we're doing a lot of things. I know that Nikita has also put up a conference, I'm also organising events, and all those things feed into each other. So I think check on the overall image that that person is creating, I also have a podcast, but for example, I'm not one of those very regular podcasters, you're not gonna see my episodes dropping every Thursday I tried doing, it's just not my personality.
Ayo Abbas 37:42
It really is hard to keep up. What happens when life gets busy? And yeah.
Sara Kolata 37:51
Yeah exactly. I'm aware that there might be people that look at this, and they're like, 'Oh, she's not regular' or something. I've been doing this for two years, maybe not every Thursday, but I'm still there. So some people will actually respect the fact that I'm taking my own time with this, because I just don't want to be overruled by just the podcast. And then I do other things as well publications, organising conferences, delivering my coaching, and actively selling as well. So, there's a lot of elements to our work. And I think that if you resonate, that's a really good sign, that's a really good sign. If you look at a person and you say, actually, I like them. I like what they do. I like what they say, I like their story. That's a good sign. And, in our community there's a lot of coaches. And there is Jeff Echols, he's got a certain personality, I can imagine that a certain type of person would go to him. And then there's this young girl here. And I guess I'll attract a different customer too.
Ayo Abbas 38:53
To be honest, there's enough work for us all. And I really do think in the community, you actually look at it, and it's like, how many architects are there? How many let alone in the UK? Even just when you look globally, so there certainly is, and I think in some ways we're also working together to raise the profile of what we do is probably more effective in a way.
Sara Kolata 39:18
Absolutely
Ayo Abbas 39:20
So Jeff Echols, I've not been on that. You've been on that Context & Clarity, haven't you? Nikita? I haven't.
Nikita Morell 39:25
Yes
Ayo Abbas 39:27
It's on my wish list I'll put that out there. I'll send him the recording. I think I've spoken to him on Clubhouse I think that's as far as I've got. Anyway, so I just want to say thank you both so much for your time for coming on the show and talking about how you work in terms of group and online progress, it's been awesome. And where's the best place to find out more about you Nikita?
Nikita Morell 39:59
Definitely my website and if you join my email list, then you're in for a bit of a surprise too, because that's another good place to get to know me a little bit better.
Ayo Abbas 40:10
And you Sara, where's the best place to find you and connect?
Sara Kolata 40:13
Yes, sarakolata.com. My website is the best place and also sign up for the newsletter.
Ayo Abbas 40:20
Okay, I can also say I have now got a newsletter as well. Finally, I've done it, I've launched it, I hit the green button. So yeah, so that'll be coming out once a month as well. So awesome. Thank you guys so much for your time. Thank you.
Sara Kolata 40:33
Thank you
Nikita Morell 40:34
Thank you
Ayo Abbas 40:40
Thanks so much for listening to the latest episode of Marketing in Times of Recovery, and I'm your host Ayo Abbas. If you want to find out more about the bi weekly show do check out the show notes which will give you more information about who the guests are and all the things we've covered. And if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, make sure you hit the subscribe button so you don't miss out on an episode. Until next time, bye.
