Ep 37: Putting your best business foot forward to win work – Leonie Thomas
Work-winning and networking are fundamental parts of staying in business, so it was a joy to talk to Leonie Thomas from Red Jasper Consulting on these two very important things.
We delved into:
The difference between responding vs reacting when it comes to bidding
The importance of having the right mindset as a bidder and how it can positively transform how you work.
Networking tips both online and in real life
The Built Environment Marketing Show is the new name for Marketing In Times of Recovery cos who wants a podcast name tied to the state of the UK economy. And don’t worry it’s still hosted by marketing consultant Ayo Abbas from Abbas Marketing. The consultancy that bridges the gap between business strategy and tactical marketing for engineers and architects. Sign up for my monthly roundup here for the latest built environment marketing news
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Transcript
Ayo Abbas 00:05
Well, hello there again. And today is the second interview in my live recorded podcast episode for my newly renamed podcast, The Built Environment Marketing Show. So as you may know, having a podcast name tied to the economy was no longer fun. So, I wanted to change things up a bit. So that's why I wanted to celebrate having a new name for my podcast, and this season of interviews beginning. Today's episode was recorded live on LinkedIn. And I'm talking to Leonie Thomas from Red Jasper Consulting. We are also taking questions and comments from the floor. So that's what I'm referring to during the episode. Anyway, on with the show. Hello, and welcome to the latest, I guess edition episode of The Built Environment Marketing Show here on LinkedIn and I am your host, Ayo Abbas. And again, if you are joining me live, please say something in the comments either where you're calling from not calling from, watching from even or I don't know what you're having for lunch even, I'd be quite interested. And today is day two of my LinkedIn live podcast interviews and we are looking at work winning work, within oops, I've just realised I've got the wrong title at the top work winning and networking. So ignore the title at the top, I'll change that. And as the market gets tougher, what are some of the ways that you can be in a better position to win work? So today, my special LinkedIn live guest is with the lovely Leonie Thomas, who I've known for quite a few years, mainly from LinkedIn and stuff like that.
Leonie Thomas 01:43
Yeah, I was thinking before, where did we meet? I can't remember. I think it might have been Twitter you know?
Ayo Abbas 01:49
Yeah, probably what your social channels, wasn't it because you're, I'm not new. But we always started chatting and stuff like that. So yeah, you see, social does work. And today, we are kind of having a bit of a ton of tactical, I can only call it a BD and work winning deep dive into putting your best business foot forward to win work, which I think is gonna be more and more important as we go forward. So Leonie, would you like to introduce yourself?
Leonie Thomas 02:15
Yeah. Hello, everybody. My name is Leonie, Leonie, Thomas and I am a bid consultant. I've been working really for about 20 years in the in the work winning sector, specifically around infrastructure and construction. So it's something I'm really passionate about helping people to win contracts, helping them to do that efficiently. Yeah, and I've been through many, many, I don't know, many journeys, many evolutions
Ayo Abbas 02:42
iterations
Leonie Thomas 02:46
of myself and how we do it. And I've seen the process develop a lot as well. So yeah, happy to talk about all that today with you.
Ayo Abbas 02:54
Fantastic. And you've just set up your own slightly different entity for yourself, haven't you? Well, I saw on on LinkedIn, obviously, I've not spoken to you about it.
Leonie Thomas 03:02
Well, generally, specifically, which one? You mean, because I do a couple of different things.
Ayo Abbas 03:09
consulting practice, you set up. Yeah. And I saw that in September.
Leonie Thomas 03:14
Yeah, one of the things I really want to help with is helping smaller organisations within the industry, to pitch efficiently, for work to help them to win those contracts. It's really important. It is a game. And if you don't know the rules of the game, then you're going to struggle to do it. And I know that I can help people to do that effectively.
Ayo Abbas 03:40
I love that navigate the rules of the game. Yeah, it
Leonie Thomas 03:43
is. It is a game would you agree? I do. And also
Ayo Abbas 03:46
it's a it's an ever evolving game. It is. The barrier from like, five years to now is different, right? And I, I think always progressing. And it's like, you know, I mean, I don't really do that many bids. Like we said before, I didn't do that many bids anymore. But when I used to, you could see how things were progressing. Every year, everyone was getting more up to speed. And the goalposts move. And I think that's the thing about bidding and work winning, as more people clock on to what they need to do. fantastic Thank you. Thank you. So we've got people we've got Stacey from sunny Stockwell or not so sunny Stockwell just down the road from me. So yeah, I know, it's not sunny. Catrina. Catrina. Hello. It's not sunny in Hampshire, either. Bari Reid who's in Scotland. It's brilliant. I know. So all over the country. I kind of like that. Right. Okay. So first question for you. So what can practices implement in terms of work winning now to position themselves to win more in the future?
Leonie Thomas 04:46
I think even in the
Ayo Abbas 04:47
future, I to win more now.
Leonie Thomas 04:49
Well, just to win more, I think I think there's a couple of things. I think the first thing is a sort of shift in mindset from reacting to bid opportunities. as they as they come in, they should be more considered and they should be responded to rather than reacted to as they as they come in. So that's, that's one of the first things that I would say. And then I also think there is a longer term piece around developing relationships and understanding who it is that you want to work with them for. And developing relationships with those people, I think the relationship piece is really, really key. And actually, it will, it will define whether a bid is successful or not. And then secondly, or thirdly, I think there's a lot around collateral to develop, so that your bid ready when an opportunity comes in. So have you got all that information that you need to be able to put a pitch together efficiently? Or is there a work to be done there. And that can be case studies, it can be CVs, it can be the sort of stuff that you know, you and I might write or work on together. But it's also the organisational stuff like accounts, insurances, policy documents, are they to hand or do they need to be developed? Or do you need to get the right sort of things in place? All of that needs to be considered before you even think about responding to a bid?
Ayo Abbas 06:17
It's actually getting your house in order, right?
Leonie Thomas 06:19
Yeah, absolutely. And it's actually, I would say, it's the most important part of the job. Responding to a bid or doing a bid, that's really, it's like the icing on the cake, or the cherry on the cake, whatever you want to say. But it's very much the last part of the process. The more important work happens far further upstream. It's understanding what your sector goals look like, what you know what your business plan looks like, how bids fit into that. And then being very, very strategic about the people that you meet, who you speak with. How you're influencing in the market, in terms of maybe award submissions, or PR, or, you know, a lot of the stuff that you do with clients, and how you can marry those up so that when the bid actually comes out, it's you're going to be successful at it because you've done the work.
Ayo Abbas 07:09
And you've got the visibility for doing that work. Yeah, I think a lot how it marries together? Is that visibility of "Oh, you're really known for this?" How are you supporting that in terms of your marketing, and then how that influences your bid and how you take that through? But I think I was interested in your first point where you spoke about whether or not you're responding to a bid or reacting to a bid? Yeah,
Leonie Thomas 07:30
I think there's a difference. And I've seen, I suppose in my career, I've seen a lot of reacting to bids. So you will find something that's come through on OJEU, or on one of the portals or, you know, some other facility
Ayo Abbas 07:47
where everybody sees it. Yeah,
Leonie Thomas 07:49
yeah. And, you know, it might tick a couple of boxes in terms of maybe value or it's the right client, or it's the right location, or right kind of work or whatever. But you've not planned to bid for that. And you've not actually planned for that in your pipeline of work or you know, where you thought work was going to come from, to me that's reacting to an opportunity rather than responding. So responding is something that's far more considered. You've been tracking it for a while, you know, the right people, you've got the right relationships, you've got absolutely the right creds credentials, as we'd say, you know, the right sort of experience, the right sort of team with the right skills, and you know, all of all of that, it's a lot more considered, and you've taken your time, you've done the planning ahead of time, those bids are far more successful.
Ayo Abbas 08:38
Yeah, I guess, I mean, for me, one of the most successful, I guess, bids and kind of capture and all of that kind of stuff, the front end looking at where you want to be sitting in a meeting with a client, not client, actually, when I was working in-house, and we had a meeting where we had like, these are the top 10 projects, we want to win in the next five years. And I mean, they were massive projects. But it meant that the marketing plan that I would doing had to align to those clients and what they needed, even though those bids would be longer term, but it's understanding how those clients what's driving them what they're talking about. And those are the types of campaigns you start developing. And it's having them in the back of your mind and having that list and actually going, this is where we're heading to. And it's like, I guess it's your north, your north, like, that's your guiding light that you follow. So yeah, that does completely make sense in terms of actually doing that front end work to really understand who the clients are.
Leonie Thomas 09:30
It drives consistency, doesn't it between yourself, business development people, whoever is responsible for that. And then people like me, who are actually responding to the actual bid documents when they when they come to market. It just makes sure everyone's consistent and on the same page, and we're saying the right things and you've done the right things to support the right things that I'm going to do in the bid. You know, it's it just makes sense, doesn't it? I don't think we think enough like that.
Ayo Abbas 09:56
I guess Is it is it easier for smaller companies to do? I've done it in massive companies admittedly. So I don't know, like, but smaller companies? Can they do that on a smaller scale? Sorry, I'm slightly going.
Leonie Thomas 10:09
I don't know, let's ask the audience. If there's any smaller, smaller organisations in how they might coordinate that work, I think I'd be interested to know,
Ayo Abbas 10:18
if there is, let me know, because I'm, I am interested in that, because it's one of those where I'm like, No, sure. Okay. So I was gonna say what other tactics can companies employ to be better prepared for more opportunities when they land? So is that more about what you said about having your house in order? In terms of your case studies? And all of that kind of information? Is there anything else you could do in terms of maybe skills for your staff or anything like that?
Leonie Thomas 10:43
Yeah, I think there's a few things, I think, one having a clear process, like, how how does bidding look to your to your business? Who does what as well? What's the roles and responsibilities around it? I think I can't, I can't emphasise enough how getting the right content together before you do it is really important. It'll save you a whole lot of time, because we're often creating bid content, aren't we, as we're bidding something, which actually accounts for all the time? You know, it's not anything else that you're doing? It's actually it's writing the words that meets the criteria. So there's, there's that and having the right, having the right relationships in place, and having a commitment to it. I was talking to someone a few weeks ago about the importance of mindset around bidding and work winning, because it's such a demanding environment, isn't it? So how do you get your team, whoever's involved in bids to focus and be committed to winning? Rather than thinking, this is awful, I feel victimised. How can we get teams to think differently about it?
Ayo Abbas 11:56
Is there any answers?
Leonie Thomas 12:01
I think firstly,
Ayo Abbas 12:02
where's the magic sauce?
Leonie Thomas 12:04
Well, I think firstly, it's acknowledging that it is possible. And I know that I think I've probably discussed it with you. But I've obviously studied mindset in quite some detail over the last five years or so. Yeah, and then applied that to to bidding. I mean, obviously, the sort of stuff I work on now tends to be the the really big infrastructure projects that it's very pressurised, isn't it, but all of that work is pressurised, because you're all on a deadline. But I realised that when I started to apply mindset to that sort of scenario, totally changed how I felt about it. Like I felt energised, rather than depleted. I really enjoyed it, you know, I just the quality of my work really changed. The amount of time it took me to do stuff really changed like it reduced. And I just find that really interesting. And it's something that I think we should explore more as a as a bid discipline, actually.
Ayo Abbas 13:00
It's really interesting. So what kind of things did you change in your mindset? Personally? Sorry, if you don't mind me asking. Yeah. What's your shift? Was it around looking at or how you how you see
Leonie Thomas 13:13
the whole loads of things, really, firstly, it was choosing to enjoy a very difficult experience, because it can be very demanding. So you choose to enjoy it. Yeah. And choose to enjoy, you know, stretching new skills or learning something new or whatever,
Ayo Abbas 13:34
be more curious and things like that.
Leonie Thomas 13:35
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And kind of being committed to the subject matter. So I mean, I deal with a lot of construction, engineering, all of that sort of stuff. You've got to have a passion for it,
Ayo Abbas 13:48
I think. Yeah, I love it.
Leonie Thomas 13:50
I love it as well. And it's, it's a choice, isn't it we've chosen to. So I mean, I always say to other bid people, like it's not really an industry to go into if you don't think you'll enjoy that, or you can't really get into it. So it's choosing to really love the subject matter. It was also choosing to see time in a different way and be more. I won't use the word strict, but something about just being structured about the use of time. So, you know, figuring out in the week when the best times were for doing that very, very deep pricing work. For me, it's getting to my desk very early in the morning. But that wouldn't work for everybody. So it's just working out for yourself when it works for you. And then deciding, you know, making a commitment to software, I'm going to finish at five o'clock and then I'm going to make my dinner or whatever it is I'm going to do and I don't do any more work than for the evening. So I'm not doing massive, massive days like I used to do. But it's also being committed to not being distracted by your phone and All of that sort of stuff and an encouraging people you work with to put time in the diary rather than ring up, unscheduled, because that can be a very big distraction as well. So it's just becoming aware of all this stuff. And I just started to enjoy my work a lot more.
Ayo Abbas 15:18
And then that's it that shows in your work, basically, the things you're delivering. So yeah, that does make sense.
Leonie Thomas 15:24
Yeah, it in a nice way, though, like not in a, I don't know, I just I'm at a stage at the moment where I kind of, it happens very easily, not in an not in such an easy way that you become complacent, not all, but just there's no struggle with it, you can just deliver excellence in a really straightforward, enjoyable way.
Ayo Abbas 15:47
Means you're rocking, well done.
Leonie Thomas 15:50
A long time. You know, it's me. And like I said to you at the start, like, I've been through many iterations in this career, many, many, many. And I'm kind of at a place now where I really love it. And I'm really sort of passionate about it.
Ayo Abbas 16:04
Yeah, I bet you found that you found your sweet spot and the things that work, right, and that you take 20? Yes, yes, I'm saying Don't worry about it. People don't know how to write all this stuff, for LinkedIn, or know when they stuff. And it's like, I've done this a long time, a long time. But you do and you learn it, you learn as you go, and you pick up skills as you go. And there's a reason that, you know, I can sit there and write a post in a, you know, in a short period of time, or go that's the opportunity. That's for the media angle, it's like, I started off in PR, and like, you know, it's like, and you build up all these different experiences and sector knowledge that that you take with you. And I think you're right, and then you you understand what works and what doesn't work for different audiences. You build up that kind of DNA don't even you start to understand. So yeah, definitely. And moving on to proposals and winning ones. Any tips on what to draw out in proposals to make them I guess when?
Leonie Thomas 16:54
Well, it's it's a very simplistic response to that question, but I just say, answer, what you've been asked. I mean, I, you know, I review and I edit a lot of stuff. And it's, it's interesting, how much responses often can deviate from the original question. I guess the answer to that is like, you need to be disciplined and just have a clear idea. You know, where you're going with that response, I kind of laugh about it really, because my skills in many, many ways, I sort of learned them when I was doing my A levels at school. And in some ways, I've not really ever needed any more than that, you know, I remember my history teacher at A level sort of teaching us how to write an essay. And you start with the intro and sort of where you wanted to take it. And I've just really follow the same sort of format. Now I just, and I stick to the questions stick to the question. But you also you want to really be demonstrating to your client, why you're the right fit, why you're not even the right fit, you're the perfect fit, you know, they couldn't deliver this job without you. And they shouldn't even think of training, you need to make that compelling argument. And we do that by, you know, linking those key strengths up or, you know, kind of buying into their aspirations or whatever in telling them how you're going to help them to deliver it, whether it's building or design or engineering, whatever discipline it is, I can help you do that. And this is how I'm going to do it. And even better, this is where I did it before. And even the everyday. Yeah. Here's the actual people who did that before. A look what an amazing job they did. So yeah, it's just it's building that compelling argument, isn't it?
Ayo Abbas 18:46
Yeah. And you build on it. I like the way the building of it, you're right, you build it into that story, don't you in that narrative? I mean, at the end, you're just kind of summary summarise it again, isn't it? And then they go, and that's your answer. But I think the other thing I always found really useful doing proposals was actually, when you're kind of writing your answer always have like the marking criteria nearby? Because then you kind of understand, I always do a sense check with that to make sure have I covered off the kind of key areas and checking points that they have, even as a writing because I always find that makes me go okay, I think that makes those bits out. Is that really relevant? And you can also use that as a sense check. So that's how I always do as well.
Leonie Thomas 19:22
Yeah, I mean, there's different ways to use the marking criteria. I know people, for example, that use that, like, if it's a point or four points, they want to make four different points in their response. Oh, wow. I don't know if I'm ever that complex. I'll just say what needs to be said. But that isn't to say that that other risk approach isn't valid. Like it probably is. It is. It's just I don't I wouldn't do that. I just maybe focus on what I need to say. But yeah, definitely, definitely always look at the marking criteria, because it'll give you an idea of what's the client thinks important here. What's important to them.
Ayo Abbas 19:58
Okay, Mike Reader has just said ATF Q I have no idea what that means. What does that mean? unless it's a swear word?
Leonie Thomas 20:08
Mike's entirely right. It means answer the question.
Ayo Abbas 20:18
I mean, I didn't know whether cheers Mike. I just got it. But yeah, I did now. Okay. Anyway, let's move on. He caught me out that one. Okay. So in terms of, aside from proposals, you're also a super connector, and then kind of really good networker, you taught me a lot as well, when I was starting out. So any tips on getting started in terms of networking? Online, let's start start there, and then we'll move to face-to-face.
Leonie Thomas 20:53
So it this is really interesting, actually, because it's a concept and a way of sort of working that I wish I had understood better earlier in my career. And the reason I say that is because the more people you know, the more opportunities that will come your way, because people just know you. And a one way of kind of creating those opportunities is by creating some sort of niche for yourself as well. So so my, my niche, for example, is like, you know, I'm a bid consultant, I'm a bid writer, I work in construction and infrastructure. There's not many of me around. So it keeps me front of mind with people, you know, if they have an opportunity. So it's, it's a great thing to do. But it's, it's really interesting, a couple of years before, actually, this is how you and I met a couple of years before lockdown. I would just approach people interesting people on LinkedIn and Twitter and say, Would you like to have a digital coffee? That's what I was. Yeah, that's how you and I met. So actually, this illustrates the point, isn't it? I would recommend if somebody's interested in that you see online, you know, Twitter, LinkedIn, tic TOCs, my favourite thing currently, whatever the medium is, it doesn't matter. But approach them. There's some people may ignore you, that's absolutely fine. But you know, just approaches have like get half an hour in their diary and have a chat about what it is that they do. And you know, what their goals are in, you know, how the pair of you might be able to work together are tehre contacts, you could share are there introductions, you could be for each other. Other ways to keep in touch. It's yeah, super, super useful. And I do think we, we use it enough.
Ayo Abbas 22:42
No, I actually, I mean, over lockdown, like really did coming to the fore, or virtual coffees as I was calling them afterwards. But like, you're right, and it was a great way to connect with people because everyone was at home, everyone was open. And you're right to build those relationships online and and start conversations because I think there is we know, there's one thing having a face on social media IE, you know, visibility, but actually, the real business is done offline, isn't it? It's done a kind of one-to-one conversations, which can be virtual conversations, but more on that, I think that's a real in depth conversations and more done in that way. Definitely. So actually TikTok you just said TikTok there what you doing?
Leonie Thomas 23:23
just adore it. I find it so educational. I only ever see wholesome content in my feed though. So that was me and I'm a wholesome person. I've never seen anything mean or nasty ever. So I don't know maybe that I just find it educational. And it's like little mini windows on the world. Like you can look at all sorts of people doing all sorts of things all over the world and I just find it fascinating. I prefer it to TV.
Ayo Abbas 23:54
I prefer podcasts TV. So like well I do podcasts as mine especially. Are you seeing any kind of construction firms on there? They're starting to be a few but not that many yet. Are you seeing many
Leonie Thomas 24:07
No not enough? A lot and things like interior design. It's amazing for like especially residential construction and interior design. It's It's It's awesome for that. And I read somewhere that actually next year it's going to be like the second largest search engine in the world.
Ayo Abbas 24:30
I think it's actually I think it may have already happened like this month.
Ayo Abbas 24:36
Just incredible, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. It's
Ayo Abbas 24:39
not just it's not just a social media channel and people using it for service is doing now.
Leonie Thomas 24:44
Slightly. It's just awesome. And I just learned so much stuff and just have a look at so much stuff so yeah.
Ayo Abbas 24:54
I was gonna say I tend to just post videos of my son walking around developments. That's what we do mainly. So any advice in terms of cuz I know you also do quite you do like you run a face-to-face networking teams?
Leonie Thomas 25:10
Yeah, I mean, that's been like a big, that's been a big pivot if you like, or a big iteration over the last couple of years. And actually, I wouldn't be able to do that had I not shifted my mindset around bidding and time and all of that sort of stuff. The two things are definitely connected. But yeah, networking, I think if you're in construction, or the industries that we work in, my advice would be to find a more specific event to go to. I mean, I've run kind of more generalist networking teams, where what I do is really quite niche compared to what they do. But it's always handy to know, a copywriter that specialises in that or solicitor, who's local law, accountants, you know, that, that sort of thing. So it's great for knowing your local community, rather than specifically finding work. It's also an amazing way to sort of develop some skills as well, great personal development opportunity.
Ayo Abbas 26:08
I was gonna say, because you're connecting people, I was gonna say, Are there any tips for anyone who wants to get started into in terms of more face-to-face networking, if you want to get going and go, actually, I need to do more of.
Leonie Thomas 26:20
So I would say everyone should do it. Like, you don't have to do it every week, but kind of make a goal of saying where I'm gonna go to an event once a month. And then try and expand your network by one person every week. Because being able to draw on that network all kinds of random times, it's actually very, very valuable. And you'll never know when you might need it.
Ayo Abbas 26:41
Yeah, I think one of the tips I had as well, from a coach, I think at one point was I actually I don't always love face to face networking. Like they always kind of sit there. Do I really want to do this? So but what I do do is like, sometimes if I don't really want to be somewhere, then I sort of give myself a goal of just go in and say hi to free people. And that's my target doesn't have to be anything major. Do you know? No. Because there are days and then like, I'd rather be at home behind my laptop, because it's easier. So yeah, that's one of the kinds of things I ended up doing. But yeah, any more tips around? How to not?
Leonie Thomas 27:14
Oh, well, firstly, I'd say there's loads of online networking opportunities. So if you're, if you're not if you're not, if you're not an extrovert, and I assume that's what the differences is introverts and extroverts, if you're more of an introvert, then there's loads of online stuff. If you're an extrovert, or you want to try face to face networking, just go along and be yourself. Yeah. And make the effort to sort of speak to people, I guess, it's really easy to sort of stand by the drinks, isn't it and try and disappears, you're not feeling that. Yeah, or if you're not feeling that confident, but as a guest, what what I would do is, look, find an event that's going to teach you something at the very least go with the the intention of maybe learning something and making a couple of contacts. So then your time is not completely wasted as it and you've got a kind of desire to sort of be there and pay attention to what's going on. And you don't necessarily need printed business cards anymore. There is an app called Blink BLIQ, where you can put in a lecture, like a digital, you know, business card, and so you can show details like that. So all of this sort of stuff. Just go with a good attitude. Yeah, combine something that is going to interest you, you want to go and learn something or meet some relevant people. Just just do that. And don't be scared.
Ayo Abbas 28:44
I'd say last week, my networking thing was to go to a talk about Crossrail, which is brilliant, by the way.
Leonie Thomas 28:50
Sounds amazing.
Ayo Abbas 28:53
At the Royal Society of Engineering, so it was meant to be anyway. It was, I'll send you the link afterwards. Actually, there's a note there's a link to it. But yeah, that was fascinating talking about, he talked about leadership, and kind of all the kinds of leadership lessons learned from you know, all the change and the things that kind of didn't go to plan and all that kind of stuff. So really fascinating.
Leonie Thomas 29:14
Yeah, exactly.
Ayo Abbas 29:17
Because, you
Ayo Abbas 29:18
Yeah, exactly. Because I considered like a geek and then afterwards when I do write on social media, like under their posts. It's like it's true. So, next question. So what should you do in terms of follow up? So I've been to that, you know, Crossrail talk last week, which I did. What should I be doing in terms of follow up when I get home?
Leonie Thomas 29:40
Or it's interesting, actually, a follow up or taking action is the bit that people often don't do. So you get the card or you make that introduction or you know, you have a chat or whatever. The details of them, connect with them and follow up with a with a note or message, if you connected in the room that could be just like your one digital coffee for this week, couldn't it? Or if they're more local, then you could maybe go meet them for a coffee or a brew. People are time for us, though, aren't they these days? So? Yeah, it might not be that you end up in a conversation. But really where you want to get to is understanding what it is they want? And how you can help them, what are their goals? How can you help them, and then they will naturally ask you the way so you're not giving to get that's not the point at all. But you're having a conversation with the point of understanding what it is the other person wants, and how we really, you can help them to achieve that.
Ayo Abbas 30:44
Yeah, it's interesting, because like, I mean, the fact we just talked about, like, Crossrail thing now I'll send you a link after this call. But you know, like, it's things like that, isn't it or you think, Oh, I saw that they might be interested in something, I always think sometimes you've read something after you've met somebody or you think, Oh, that's a piece of information. I can share. It's it's that kind of, you're not expecting anything from them.
Leonie Thomas 31:02
But
Leonie Thomas 31:04
do all the time, because it's a great way to stay in touch and stay in front of mind without actually wanting something or expecting something. It's just a really simple way of sharing information being valuable being useful to your own network and, and kind of looking after your network as well.
Ayo Abbas 31:20
So okay, my last question on this bit is actually so how much networking should I be doing? That's a bit of a How long's a piece of string? Well,
Leonie Thomas 31:27
I think, I think it's different for everybody. I think extroverts have got more of an appetite for introverts, I think we need to manage our energy a little bit more. So we probably want to do a little bit less. Do as much as what feels right and comfortable to you. Target the right sorts of events. Never discount somebody because you think they're not going to be useful to you. That's totally the wrong thing to be doing.
Ayo Abbas 31:55
It can be exceptionally rude when people do that.
Leonie Thomas 31:58
Yeah, but it happens, it happens.
Ayo Abbas 32:03
And they just walk off and you're like?
Leonie Thomas 32:13
Well, it's just making sure that you are not doing that to other people, you know, be interested in what other people were doing. And I, you know, what, if you set a goal of meeting one new person, every single week, for a year, it's 52 new people, isn't it that you've met? So you know that's expanding your network by quite a bit? And then how many people do they know? And how many people do you know? It just gets bigger and bigger and bigger? Doesn't it your network? Yeah,
Ayo Abbas 32:41
absolutely nice. That is a good point. And a good way, like you say, the mindset, I guess you're breaking it down into those little goals. Meeting one person a week is not huge, doesn't seem, it doesn't seem like a big goal, does it? But actually, when you magnify it and look at it overall? It does, it does build.
Leonie Thomas 32:55
It doesn't.
Leonie Thomas 32:55
But if you're if you're making more of an introvert, or, you know, if I think about where I was at the start of my networking journey, the the mindset shift I've had to go through about making carving out more time and being able to approach people and setting the time out to have those meetings and all of that sort of stuff. And being sort of committed to that, really, and understanding what I'm doing it for you know, that that journey has been significant, more than just meeting one person every week for a chat.
Ayo Abbas 33:26
That's so true. All right, so my final question in this in this episode. So a quick fire round. So you know, it's not quick fires, don't worry. It's just, it was in the it was in the brief, you should have the answers. So it was a question about tools and resources. I know you already talked about Blinq, which is the business card tool, which he talked about with the Yeah, are there any other kinds of tools or resources that people could use that's low cost or free, that would really help them in terms of our bidding or networking.
Leonie Thomas 33:57
So I am a big fan of Office 365 You know, I just, I just think it works for what for what we need it to do. And I've been using the online the browser version too, and for the calendar, and sort of fixing it so that I can have tasks and put them directly into a diary so I know exactly what I should do every day and everything's done. And I am loving that right now. It's just so kind of organised and efficient it's also amazing for collaborating with people you know in the same documents so yeah, it is a bit of a shout out for Microsoft I guess but you love it is just so efficient. Just works. WhatsApp I do I do adore WhatsApp might not read
Leonie Thomas 34:48
Yeah, yeah. Like little teams for games and all that fruits, a bit scenes, all of that sort of stuff. Yeah.
Ayo Abbas 34:58
Because I, I personally just use that's a personal but that's because I, yeah. Because I've got so many channels that people talk to me on that, you know, like some of you like some.
Leonie Thomas 35:09
Yeah, no, I do understand that I do understand that. I mean, I always say to people as well like, email me, by all means, but if you want me to sort of see something or respond, WhatsApp suddenly that's the most effective way of getting hold of me. I feel tyrannised really by email. Yeah. Yeah, it's too many too many, =and then, not only am I expected to read and but I need to action, something as well as.
Ayo Abbas 35:39
And you also need to probably scroll through a tonne of them to find the actual action. So that's it. Like, where is it? What
Ayo Abbas 35:46
am I meant to do was?
Leonie Thomas 35:47
Actually that's been one of the big sort of friction points around carving time out in the day structure in my day, and then getting emails done. Yeah, actually delivering the work is far more important. But then obviously, you can miss stuff. If you're not, on top of your emails. I am I am looking for what the? What solution there is? Because there will be one.
Ayo Abbas 36:13
I don't know what it is. But if someone can tell us, that'd be great. Thank you. Anyway, thank you so much for being an awesome guest, Leonie, and where can people find out more about you?
Leonie Thomas 36:26
You can find me on LinkedIn, try start on LinkedIn, that's a good place to start.
Ayo Abbas 36:31
She's there once a week
Leonie Thomas 36:35
when we just put everybody in the picture, like I have a COVID over the last couple of months. It's honestly it's been quite brutalising in a way. So I have had a bit of a digital detox. Not really through choice. But yeah, LinkedIn is a good place to start.
Ayo Abbas 36:54
I was only teasing, I promise. Anyway, thank you so much for being an awesome guest. That people can find your LinkedIn and find out more about you and the fantastic stuff that you do. And tomorrow I'm gonna be live at 1230 Again, this time, I'm gonna be talking to Stacy meadwell, about LinkedIn and getting that fired up and getting yourself out there and visible. So yeah, thank you so much, Leonie. Take care. Bye. Bye thanks so much for listening to the built environment marketing show. Don't forget to check out the show notes which will have useful links and resources connected to this episode. You can find that on bass marketing.com. And of course if you liked the show, please do share it with others on social as it helps more people to find us. See you soon.
