Ep 32: Marketing Models: Collectives with Tanisha Raffiuddin and Luke Neve
Collaboration is a hot topic across the built environment as people realise that we can do so much more together so today’s episode delves into collectives and how they can help to supercharge your marketing.
My guests are Tanisha Raffiuddin from the LDN Collective and Luke Neve from Comms Crits who talk about their work as comms specialists who work as part of collectives.
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:38: Tanisha's and Luke's collectives
00:04:02: Luke's three steps
00:07:49: Tanisha's MO
00:10:37: Clients' benefits from employing a collective
00:13:31: Downsides to collectives
00:17:17: Collective success stories
00:22:42: How to appoint a collective
00:27:24: Be prepared to receive honest feedback
00:35:39: Final thoughts
Marketing In Times of Recovery is the built environment marketing podcast and this is the third part of my marketing models mini-series which looks at different ways to get your marketing done. Check out episode 1 here - group/online programmes and episode 2 here - consultants/independents.
Marketing In Times of Recovery is hosted by built environment marketing consultant, Ayo Abbas from Abbas Marketing. Sign up for my monthly roundup here for the latest built environment marketing news
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Resources
Abbas Marketing
Comms Crits
LDN Collective
Concept Culture
Neve.agency
Transcript.
Interview Transcription
Ayo Abbas: Hello, and welcome to this final episode of our Marketing Models mini-series. It's looking at how to get your marketing done. You are listening to Marketing in Times of Recovery, and I am your host, Ayo Abbas, Director of Abbas Marketing.
If you've not had a listen to part 1 of this mini-series, do take a listen. It's about online and group programmes, and part 2 looks at consultancy and independence. Make sure you follow the links in the show notes to take a listen and find out more about those.
Today, we are looking at collectives. Collaboration is a hot topic across the built environment sector as people realise that we can do more together. So, today's episode delves into collectives and how they can help to supercharge your marketing. My guests are Tanisha Raffiudin and Luke Neve, so let's get on and enjoy our conversation.
Hi Luke, hi Tanisha, and welcome to the show. Tanisha, do you want to introduce yourself and your collective.
Tanisha Raffiudin: Absolutely, thanks Ayo, it's a pleasure to be here with both of you today. I am Tanisha Raffiudin, I'm the founder and creative director of Concept Culture. Concept Culture is a boutique creative agency that helps environment organisations build their brand to a strategic branding and marketing.
Ayo Abbas: Luke, do you want to introduce yourself and then we will talk about your collective that you're part of.
Luke Neve: Sure, I am Luke Neve. I am director of Neve which is a communications consultancy for the architecture, design and culture industries, and I'm really happy to be here today, thanks for inviting me, Ayo.
Ayo Abbas: Brilliant, and do you want to both introduce your collectives? So Tanisha, do you want to tell us a bit about the LDN Collective and how that works?
Tanisha Raffiudin: Sure, so the LDN Collective is a virtual network of built environment professionals, and it was founded by Max Farrell, I think somewhere towards the end of 2019. We go by the tagline of, "We are city makers", and no joke, between the group we could actually make a city, because our group membership is made of a range of consultants all across the built environment, right from planning consultants to branding specialists and storytellers like myself.
Ayo Abbas: Okay, fantastic. Luke do you want to introduce us to the Comms Crits and how that works?
Luke Neve: Yeah, sure, so Comms Crits was set up in 2020 with myself, Rob Fiehn and Bobby Jewel. We were having conversations around what was quite a tumultuous time and trying to think of ways to support architecture and sign practices in an accessible, affordable way. So, we basically set up Comms Crits founded on the idea of a crits that I think most people in architecture are very familiar with. We've been going for about two years now and we've done about 21 crits to date, at the moment.
Ayo Abbas: Fantastic. Can you go into a bit of detail in terms of how you work and how you work with a practice? They come to you, and what happens, Luke?
Luke Neve: Yeah, sure. It differs in terms of how people approach us. A lot of the time, architecture practices will approach one of us individually and say, "I'm looking for some support on our communications activities". Through those sorts of initial conversations, it will become clear that they might need some sort of crit or a conversation to put the groundwork down for their communications strategy going forward.
Then at that point, we introduce them to the wider group, whoever that might be. If somebody has approached me, then I will approach them to Rob and Bobby, and then we go from there. I can go a little bit into the process of how that works right now, if you want me to?
Ayo Abbas: Yeah, go for it.
Luke Neve: Sure. So, we try to make it as simple as possible, because we are quite aware that communications as a specialism can be a bit overwhelming for people that don't have the experience in the field, so we work in three steps. First, we give the practice some homework. We ask them for a collection of documents and links, so that's things like a link to their website, links to their social media channels, any director profile and bios, a selection of current projects or projects that they have upcoming that are important that they want to talk about, any news that has been out about their practice, press releases; and then any additional marketing materials. That is stuff that they might be sending out to clients or using in pitches.
Then Rob, Bobby and I will look at all of that information together, have a conversation about where we think they might need help with, and then we have an hour Zoom call with the person who's doing the comms crit. Usually it's a small team, we welcome them to invite as many people as they like to come and be part of that conversation. In that hour chat, we run through all of the documents that they sent through and have a bit of a discussion about where they would like to be, all of those things that I think organisations should have an idea about if they've got a business strategy.
Then after that, we again go away and have a little bit of a conversation between us three, and we create a report which covers short-term goals, long-term goals and some in-depth marketing reviews of their different platforms, like social media, website; and then if they had sent them, their marketing materials as well. What we hope, or what we aim to do with each comms crit, is provide a set of practical tools that they can take away and implement in an easy-to-understand way.
Ayo Abbas: That's really comprehensive. Do you find that people do have a business strategy in place and things like that?
Luke Neve: Not always.
Ayo Abbas: Conversations I've have been having with people, actually a lot of this stuff isn't necessarily there!
Luke Neve: Yeah! I think that we discover that in the initial conversations that we have with the practice. A lot of the time, practices will come to us once they have finished their business strategy work and they will say, "Now we're ready for some comms support". Or we will say to them, "You're not ready yet, go and do your business strategy and then come back and we can help you much, much more". As a consultant, outside of the comms crits work, that is something that I am sure all three of us here on the podcast today are familiar with.
Ayo Abbas: Absolutely.
Luke Neve: The business strategy needs to be sorted out first before you can do anything with comms, because otherwise it's way too freewheeling and they just won't get their return on investment.
Ayo Abbas: I think it's when people come to you and they say, "Yeah, market this", and you're like, "But there's nothing really there".
Luke Neve: Yeah, exactly.
Ayo Abbas: It feels a bit like the emperor's new clothes! There does need to be some substance under it, under that pretty picture.
Luke Neve: That's right.
Ayo Abbas: So, Tanisha, how does the LDN collective work; what's your modus operandi?
Tanisha Raffiudin: We're slightly different to Comms Crits obviously. As I said in the introduction, so we are a network of built environment professionals and there are about 50; the membership moves around the 50 number. It was founded by Max Farrell out of frustration as to how procurement takes place and how it can be a painful process for clients dealing with multiple consultants. So, he decided to bring all the consultants under one umbrella, so to speak, and propose a new way of working for the client with a team of consultants, and essentially our message is that we can convene and disband like a film's cast and crew.
That makes our teams agile and more responsive to clients' needs and it saves them time and money without compromising on the results; because, if you do go on to the LDN collective website and look at the expertise that's out there, it's an amazing range of expertise across the built environment, and ranges from even small boutique agencies like myself to larger companies like Element or ASG, for example.
The Collective is the model, it's a membership model and members pay a membership fee, and Max acts as the CEO and founder and he coordinates all member activities, and we have things like monthly member meetings; and now, since the pandemic has slowed down a bit, we also meet in person. The member meetings are a way for us to catch up on what's going on in the Collective, what projects people are working on, if anyone has any ideas for pitches and stuff like that. There's a lot of value in being a part of at least the LDN Collective.
For me, especially as a smaller consultancy, being a part of the Collective accelerated Concept Culture's growth to a level that I probably wouldn't have been able to go by myself. And as it so happened, I joined as a member, but I am now working for the Collective, so the LDN Collective is my client. A number of people on there, those people are also our clients, and we would not have been able to do that had we not joined the Collective. So for me, I'm coming at this conversation from both angles, as a member of a collective model and also as the marketing and branding consultant of a collective.
Ayo Abbas: So you're doing both.
Tanisha Raffiudin: Yes.
Ayo Abbas: Luke, what do you think the benefits of your Comms Crit approach for your clients and the people that you're working with. I know you touched on some there like agility and things like that Tanisha, so from your perspective, is it three heads are better than one, type of thing?
Luke Neve: Yeah, we all bring slightly different skill sets to the Comms Crit experience, if you can call it that. Rob has a lot of experience with press and PR, as does Bobby. Bobby has worked with some organisations that are doing wider UK-wide campaigns like ACAN, so he has a bit more of an understanding of how to position work in a broader sense. I have a big interest in digital and social media, so we can all bring something different to the table.
I think, outside of what the clients get out of it too, just between Rob and Bobby and I, we've been friends for a really long time now and we've all been working in the industry for eight-plus years. So, we bring that sort of closeness and ability to give each other critical feedback and push each other to question certain things, which I think comes through in the final report, by providing something that's really comprehensive and has gone through a rigorous process of evaluation.
Ayo Abbas: I love that "rigorous process"; arguing!
Luke Neve: We are very honest.
Ayo Abbas: As you said that, I'm like, "You're with Rob, that must be very honest!"
Luke Neve: I think we're all honest to each other and actually, I think that's a really productive working environment. We are constantly asking each other what their opinion is on certain things, or if they have advice to apply to a certain situation. The Comms Crits itself came out of wanting to help people in an affordable and easy-to-access way; but it came from years of collaboration before then, and I think that sort of natural working together has really helped us.
Ayo Abbas: You're absolutely right, working on your own is actually quite hard and to have sounding boards and when you come up with an idea and chat and talk it through with other people, it just makes a better product at the end of the day, doesn't it, because then they're bringing in their ideas and they're bringing all of that as well, so you're not alone. I think that is the whole thing about collectives, is actually it's a creative force together, isn't it, and it works really nicely.
Luke Neve: Yeah, exactly.
Ayo Abbas: Do you think there are any drawbacks of collectives? Are there any that you see, Tanisha?
Tanisha Raffiudin: In any collaborative process, everything will take a bit longer. So, I think the more voices that are involved at the table, everyone's voice has to be heard, everyone has to be given a say in the matter, so things will take longer. Then obviously in the Collective, there are 50 people, so getting everyone's diaries aligned, getting everyone to be at the same place at the same time is challenging, and that's why we have the monthly meetings and that's in everyone's diary in advance.
I would say that if you're somebody who has less patience, maybe being part of a collective is not for you! It's definitely a marathon not a sprint.
Ayo Abbas: It has to happen yesterday! What do you see as any drawbacks, Luke?
Luke Neve: I think I can echo Tanisha's statement, but it's obviously a bit easier where there's three of us. We make sure that we give each other space to give their feedback to the process. All three of us are very busy communications consultants, so sometimes we set ourselves a deadline for a week after we have the Zoom call with the client to give the report. We haven't broken that yet, but there have been times where we're like, "We need to get this done now!"
That can be difficult, as Tanisha said, dealing with other people's schedules to get the work done by a certain time. But I think you get around that and you put different strategies in place to help you, and I think things like having a strict deadline is core to that.
Ayo Abbas: It helps you in a way, doesn't it? It gives you a focal point of, "We've got a week to do this".
Luke Neve: Yeah, exactly. For us as well, the fee that we've set probably doesn't represent exactly the amount of time that we put into each report, but we made an agreement to do it at a certain level fee-wise, and we're sticking to that. So as a result, we're trying to make sure that we're balancing the time that everyone is putting into it so that it's fair. That is also another, maybe, what could be considered a downside, that you don't want to overwork and deliver more than you maybe should be with each report. We're very wary of that each time we're doing it.
Ayo Abbas: I'm sure as you're doing more of them, you get more into the process as well though, don't you, in terms of understanding what you're looking for and how to approach it and tackle it as well?
Luke Neve: That's right, yeah.
Tanisha Raffiudin: I can add to that as well in terms of the fees, because also there are more people involved and there's only pot of fee, so the fee that you get at the end is probably smaller than if you were going it on your own. However, collaboratively pitching for projects opens doors to more lucrative projects that you probably wouldn't have been able to pitch for yourself. So, there is the balance to be achieved on that front.
Ayo Abbas: Completely. So, have you got a success story you want to share with us, Tanisha, of where it's worked really well, the whole collaborative approach, or something like that; is there something you can share?
Tanisha Raffiudin: I can share my own! Like I said, I just happened to come across the LDN Collective. It was during the height of the pandemic, everyone was on LinkedIn, everyone was more open to connecting on LinkedIn. I saw a post by Max Farrell, and I dropped him a line, I was like, "What is this collective? Can I learn more?" Then we had a chat, and I was like, "I'd love to join", and because the Collective has a group of built environment consultants as well as the communications and branding group as well, so that's why we're slightly different because we bring bulk elements together.
It attracted me because I had transitioned from being an architect and being a built environment consultant, into marketing and branding. So, it was a really good opportunity for me to be a part of the Collective. We did some work together and then Max asked me to formally run LDN's digital channel, so we started with social media, then I pushed him to start the newsletter, so now we have a newsletter. The LDN Collective has benefitted so much from that newsletter, it's incredible. Now as a group, we're going to MIPIM, and I probably wouldn't have been able to go to MIPIM if it was just me; but now going as a group gives me the confidence to go to such a large event.
Ayo Abbas: But as well, it means you know people there, which I think is always a scary part of MIPIM, right? It's huge!
Tanisha Raffiudin: Yeah. And, Max has personally said, "I'm going to take you under my wing", and that wouldn't have happened if I wasn't a part of this group and that's the community aspect of it; it's so important. Like you said earlier, I know working by yourself is hard and particularly now in the post-pandemic recovery period, to being a part of this community, having people to lean on as sounding boards and to check your ideas, and in my case people who are far more experienced than me. It's literally a feeling I can't put in words; I'm trying to, but with difficulty. I have benefited personally, me as my personal brand, and Concept Culture's brand has benefited immensely from being part of the LDN collective.
Ayo Abbas: Fantastic. And, Luke, do you have a short story you can share with us as well?
Luke Neve: Yeah sure, aside from the fact that we've done 21 crits so far.
Ayo Abbas: That's a lot!
Luke Neve: That's basically one a month, which is really, really good. We've got three or four booked in for the next few months, which is really great. Just the positive feedback that we've had from every single report so far has been overwhelming. The practices have been really grateful; this doesn't sound so honest, but it is! We're really happy that we're providing this support to the practices that have worked with us.
Outside of that, it's really enjoyable to have updates from the practices that we've worked with. We do quite often hear from people saying, "We've just actioned that point that you said that we should do", or something like that. That's just a really nice thing to see that they are taking our advice onboard and finding that the actions that we've suggested are easy for them to do themselves.
Outside of that, sometimes they'll ask one or a couple of us to work with them in the future, so Bobby and I work with Delve Architects now as a result of this Comms Crit process. Even there, they are referring back to the report when we have meetings together, so it's nice to see that when we're delivering a report, it's existing for a long amount of time after we've actually sent it through, and they are actually taking our suggestions on board.
Ayo Abbas: That's the thing, isn't it, it's when you do a report and it's live and it's actionable and people are using it, rather than sitting on a drive somewhere; that's the thing, isn't it?
Luke Neve: It can happen.
Ayo Abbas: I know, when you write those reports and it's literally, "They're never seeing that again". They'll dust that off in a year and go, "Oh?"
Luke Neve: Yeah, when they do their end-of-year review, or something.
Ayo Abbas: Yeah, we were meant to do something? I think that is a sign of a good report is when it is used, and I think that's the thing, isn't it? You do get advice from that.
Luke Neve: I think so. And I mean also, just outside of the Comms Crit thing, as I said before, Rob and Bobby and I have worked together for a really long time, and we have been running events for the architecture industry where we try to do something a little bit different. I think our combined experience and want to do something that isn't just like an architecture panel or something, we've created a lot of fun, engaging events that have had great feedback as well in the past too.
Ayo Abbas: So, if I'm a client and I'm thinking, "Right, this collective model, this is what I want to be doing, I want to be working with a number of people", what things should I be doing or what should I be thinking about in order to appoint somebody? Tanisha, do you want to kick this off?
Tanisha Raffiudin: I guess it's this realisation that you have access to a wider pool of talent. I think there is some value in that, because otherwise you probably have to procure every consultant separately. Also, you are going to be working with a group that has a combined mission and a combined vision and we're all, for the most part, brand-aligned. So, you will get a committed team, I would say, and so there are definitely benefits to approaching a collective over a single practice.
I think each approach will have its pros and cons, but I'd say give it a try. Be open to working in a different way that's different to the traditional route of procurement, I'd say.
Ayo Abbas: And, Luke?
Luke Neve: It's a good question. Aside from having a business strategy all ready to go --
Ayo Abbas: Which a lot of people don't!
Luke Neve: -- I would say it's good to come to the table with an idea of what you want. I think the hardest conversations that we have with people are when they come not having a clue what they want. They have just been told that they need to have some communication support, and that's it. You do get there eventually.
Ayo Abbas: But it's harder, yeah.
Luke Neve: It's much harder, it's a barrier that you have to overcome together; whereas if somebody comes and says, "Quite honestly, I'm struggling with Instagram" or, "We haven't got much coverage for our projects", those are clear, actionable areas where you can offer support. If it's, "Really need some help".
Ayo Abbas: "I just need to be out there"!
Luke Neve: Yeah, "I need to be out there"! Then it's much, much harder to have a productive session, and for both parties to get something from the conversations together. I would maybe do, not really research, but just sit down, do a bit of an assessment of where you are and where you want to be, and then start to approach people.
The other thing I would say is approach a collective, sure, like one of us, if you think you might need to have a baseline for your communication strategy, speaking to an organisation like Tanisha is part of, if you want to help to deliver some of this stuff. But also, it's thinking about going to a few different people potentially. Don't just go to one person, go to a few people, find that person that you gel with, because then the work will become so much more easy to deliver. You've got to have a good relationship, I think, for these things to be done successfully.
Ayo Abbas: I think on top of that, actually, what you said about finding the right person as well is, even when you talked about the different skillsets that you have within your collective, we can all have similar titles, but actually it's talking to our strategy and know what our sweet spots are, and those areas of expertise are for us as individuals. That is the key thing, that a comms consultant can have a whole plethora of skills, and I think it's finding that person who has the skills that are right for what you need. And I think you're right, you can only get that from a conversation, that's not from a website; that's actually talking to somebody and really understanding what they are and what they do.
Luke Neve: Yeah. I think it's really, really rare to be able to look at a website or someone's Instagram and say, "We're going to give them a grand a month retainer".
Ayo Abbas: That would be nice! Completely, I think you have to have those conversations. Are there any particular questions or particular things that people should ask, do you think, if they are scoping out a collective; or are there any kind of particular things that they should be asking people?
Luke Neve: Aside from what we've already talked about, the main thing that I think practices should welcome is the honest feedback. It can be hard to hear sometimes, if you've spent time in a certain area and it's not going the way that you want it to, but you need to have that feedback to make a positive change. We will try and give you as much practical feedback as possible, but if you are not honest about something or you're not prepared to take honest advice, then it just won't be very productive at all.
Ayo Abbas: You won't get the results you're after either, will you?
Luke Neve: No.
Ayo Abbas: Being open is the key thing. And for you, Tanisha?
Tanisha Raffiudin: I would agree with what Luke has just said. In any sector when you're hiring a single consultant or a group of consultants, the same principles apply. When you book a discovery call, for example, go prepared for the call, give the consultant or collective as much information as you can about what your goals are, what you're looking to achieve, plus the timeline that you want to achieve it in, plus the budget, and I think that's something that people dance around way too much.
Ayo Abbas: Budget is huge, isn't it?
Luke Neve: Yeah.
Tanisha Raffiudin: If you come as a client, if you come to the first conversation with an idea of budget, then that will make things so much easier. It just saves everybody time. If you don't have the budget, then you're wasting the consultant's time and I think that is a big bugbear. For me, I'm relatively young as a business owner, and there are a number of times I ask the client, "Do you have a budget in mind?" and they say, "I have no idea". I was like, "So why are we having this conversation? What are you going to invest in the process?" because definitely working with us is a two-way process.
So, do you have the time to invest when you're working with a marketing consultant? We have retainer clients as well; this is now speaking as Concept Culture. I'm very upfront that you're going to put in the time to work with us. It's not like we ask for something and then you don't respond and just expect things to…
Ayo Abbas: "Where's my coverage this month?", and you're like, "Well…"
Tanisha Raffiudin: Yeah, exactly. So, realising that this is going to be a two-way process, that you as a client have to invest your own time, and you have to be committed to the process, and that you have a fair, realistic budget, realistic goals, realistic timeline will just get you to where you need to go faster, in a more efficient way and you will see the ROI. Everyone's like, "I don't see the value in this, I don't see the value in that, I don't see the value in marketing".
If you are that person who doesn't see the value in branding and marketing, then it's not my job to convince you. Come to me when you are aware of the value of branding of marketing, and then let's have a conversation.
Ayo Abbas: That's so interesting and so refreshing. Also, I think the whole budget thing is a really interesting one. It doesn't need to be a finite budget, it can just be in the bracket of --
Tanisha Raffiudin: Even a range.
Ayo Abbas: I think that's absolutely fine, but it will give you some kind of idea, because you are right. I think otherwise, you're there and you're like -- because quite often now, I actually do go back to people and say, "Actually, this is my day rate".
Luke Neve: Yeah.
Ayo Abbas: I say that quite upfront, because otherwise you are having conversations and you're like, "Are you going to be able to afford to work with me" and all of this kind of stuff, and I'm sure with collectives and everything else it's going to be exactly the same.
Luke Neve: I just wanted to pick up on something that Tanisha said just then, and that was about timeframe. I think that is one thing that you also come up against a lot with potential clients, is that they'll approach you a week before the project is about to finish. It's so much harder to do something with a project on that tight a timeframe. In fact I would probably say, "No, I can't help you, I am sorry", because you need time to generate the materials needed to best celebrate a project completion or a project going to planning.
So, that would be one piece of advice that I would give to any practice thinking about speaking to a communications person, is do your full casting of when projects are going to go to planning, they are going to be completing, etc, and get in touch with a communications person three to four months before the date of that thing happening, because that will give you the best chance to have a successful campaign around an individual activity. Anything less than that, you are probably missing out on a few opportunities that you could have got if you'd just given yourself a bit more time.
Ayo Abbas: I have to admit, I always think when people come to you when a project's done, I think you've lost the window. That is it, because actually those stories that come as you're developing that project are probably some of the best content and you've probably missed all of that window. I always think actually, once it's done that… Well, okay, it's great to show it, but do you know what I mean? I think you get a lot more as you're going through a project, and why you've made a decision, and why you've chosen that material, and all of those kinds of granular things.
Tanisha Raffiudin: It's a richer story.
Luke Neve: Yeah. I think as well also, maybe we're going a bit off piste here, but to talk about press and PR, it's much more difficult to place stories as a result of COVID having an impact on publications, and they're having their commissioning budgets slashed, and all of that stuff. If a project is completed and it has been completed for three months, they won't cover it, and you will find it really, really difficult to get the coverage. That is another reason to try and give as much time as possible leading up to something, so that you can start those essential conversations with people like journalists as soon as possible.
Tanisha Raffiudin: I would also like to add one more point. You talked about companies having a business strategy before they come to a comms consultant. I would also add, "Do you have a brand strategy? Do you know your 'why'? Why do you operate? Do you know your purpose as a business?" Comms consultants' agendas are purely to work with businesses, but purposeful brands, so one of the first questions I asked is what's your "why"? Why are you operating beyond profit; what's your purpose?
If they can't answer the why question, then I would find it difficult to work with them; because if you don't have clarity of what your brand is, how do you expect someone to be able to communicate that for you? The clarity of your brand has to start to with you, and then obviously we're here to help you articulate what your brand is about, but having that clarity as a first step yourself will help the consulting team that you're working with to be able to amplify your voice better.
Ayo Abbas: Brilliant, and we're going to finish on that note. So, thank you both for coming on the show. How do we find out more about you, Tanisha?
Tanisha Raffiudin: You can visit our website, it's conceptculture.co. We're also on social media as well, and I'm looking forward to hearing from your listeners, Ayo.
Ayo Abbas: Fantastic, and Luke?
Luke Neve: You can find me personally on Twitter @LukeMNeve and also on neve.agency, that's my website. Then for Comms Crits it's commscrits.com or info@commscrits.com. If you send it to that email, it will go through to all three of us and one of us will get back to you.
Ayo Abbas: Within 24 hours or something, right?
Luke Neve: Yeah.
Tanisha Raffiudin: Can I add the LDN Collective?
Ayo Abbas: Yes, I think you should as it was an interview for the LDN Collective.
Tanisha Raffiudin: That is correct, so if you'd like to reach out to the LDN Collective, we are ldn-collective.com and we're also on social media, and you can sign up for our newsletter, it's really cool.
Ayo Abbas: It is lovely, actually. Max is really good at posting as well. Fantastic, thank you so much guys and this will be out shortly. Thanks for coming on the show.
Tanisha Raffiudin: Pleasure, thanks for having us.
Luke Neve: Thank you.
Ayo Abbas: Thanks so much for listening to the latest episode of Marketing in Times of Recovery and I'm your host, Ayo Abbas. If you want to find out more about the bi-weekly show, do check out the show notes which will give you more information about who the guests are and all the things we've covered.
