#Ep 19 | Part II: Marketing Channels (LinkedIn, Email, Tik Tok)with Amy Edwards, Nikita Morell and Dave Sharp
Nikita Morell, Dave Sharp and Amy Edwards
Here’s part 2 of our Australian takeover special. If you’ve not checked out part 1 make sure you do then listen to this one.
My guests are:
Amy Edwards, Markedly
Nikita Morell, Copywriter and Marketing Strategist
Dave Sharp, Vanity Projects
This is part two of a three-part special which is being released weekly covering many aspects of marketing from strategy to social to print and everything in between.
Part III will be out on Friday 04 June.
This three-part special was recorded on Thurs May 06 2021.
Rate and review us
Please don’t forget to rate and review us if you’re listening on Apple podcasts as it’s lovely to hear what you think plus it helps us to spread the word.
Resources
Kuzman Architecture – 10x3
Transcript.
Ayo Abbas 00:05
Here's part two of my interview with Amy, Dave and Nikita, if you've not checked out part one, have a look at your feed and do that before you listen to this one, take care and enjoy. Are there any practices that you think kind of stand out in terms of their marketing? And is there kind of any particular ones that kind of this year that you think have done a really good job? I'm going to ask Dave.
Dave Sharp 00:31
Oh, so for me, this is always the hard question. I'm often when it comes to providing like good examples of precedents that's like Nikita and I work have started working on a podcast, that's gonna apparently be all about finding good examples, and I have literally nothing to contribute to it Honestly, I think, you know, it's, it's, it's tough to say maybe I should just pass it on. Because I think Nikita and I may have like loads of different examples, i think i think i don't i don't see it as much as there are a single practices that do every aspect of marketing really well, and they like really stood out because they're amazing marketers, I think it's more about individual, the small, noticeable points of difference things that they've just done a little bit differently. That's Yeah, that to me, they overall might not be great marketers, but the one thing I they may have noticed, like one stroke of genius, and I really appreciate them for that. Like the people that I ask to be on my podcasts are often times not doing that much marketing, but one aspect of their marketing is done really well. And that's why I love them. So I think I don't know that's not really giving you specific examples, but except maybe listen to my podcast to find out some examples. Audience Yeah,
Ayo Abbas 01:45
but he hasn't got any remember
Dave Sharp 01:50
You have to tune in to find out.
Ayo Abbas 01:53
Listen to mine. Nikita, you say what kind of a particular practice that you think have got good standout kind of examples in terms of what they do and how they market themselves?
Nikita Morell 02:07
Yeah, I mean, one that comes to mind is I think they're pronounced Kuzman architects. Oh, Kuzman architects and they're running this design challenge at the moment called 10 by 3.
Dave Sharp 02:21
That's my client!.
Nikita Morell 02:21
And that, is that there you go.
Dave Sharp 02:27
Please do the work for me, please.
Nikita Morell 02:31
Now I'm gonna Yeah, now I'm gonna get you can talk to them.
Dave Sharp 02:38
I honestly feel terrible. Please, please continue. Please continue. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just I just wanted to regain some territory and say, I do know some examples they're my clients that I always forget.
Nikita Morell 02:55
They're running a design a design challenge, which I thought is a great way to, I guess, yeah, get some traction. And then Anthony Richardson from The Design Emotive, he's obviously creating these short videos. And, yeah, it's just, I think, doing things that's not directly related to a firm's own work, you know, but it can kind of step outside and showcase your your skills, rather than just like, I think a lot of architects just focus on the end product, you know, the project, like, this is what we send, you never really see all the behind the scenes, and that's where the value is added, right? Like anyone can show you a picture of a pretty building, but it will, how did you get there? And that also, I think, helps them get better clients, because, you know, you're not going to get these clients to change their mind 10,000 times and, and then or, you know, ask for something to change overnight. Because they understand, like, what goes into it and what they're paying for. So, yeah, I think that's a great strategy Dave.
Ayo Abbas 03:52
Amy, did you have any examples of practices? Who do marketing really well, at the moment?
Amy Edwards 04:02
Look, I think I think a lot of the smaller practices are doing really well. I think they're just I think they're just testing stuff out, you know, like they're testing things out and trying it and adapting and, but moving forward and keeping things interesting. One practice, who I work with here locally, they before that, before starting working with me, they they took on some advice around their social media, mostly around working with a copywriter and in finding their tone of voice and but also defining their personality and being comfortable with that. And really through all of last year through 2020 they really implemented that and just were themselves so that you know, they were authentic and and just put who they were forward and actually, it's just way too beautifully for them. So for their names Maytree Studios, and they have grown immensely over that time, just by being themselves you know, because they connect with people who actually like minded. You know, they end up getting clients who you know who they are straight up, they're straight shooters. But also they're very personable. And I think, I think if you can, if you can combine some kind of level of authenticity with, you know, a tone of voice that represents who you are adapted, you're going, I think you're going to get a great audience that comes along for the ride for the long term.
Ayo Abbas 05:21
Brilliant, thank you for that. And now, I guess, I am going to go a bit back slightly to kind of social media and kind of now Dave, I know when he said that, you know, two years ago, Amos (Goldreich)was looking at Instagram and things like that. So if you're a practice, he's starting out now, are they kind of particular tips that you can give them if they want to get going with social media and digital? Or should they not bother?
Dave Sharp 05:46
Oh, it's a really, it's a really good question in terms of how, how big is your portfolio going to be your biggest strength, and I know that I'm probably very traditional there. But if the best thing you could possibly do is roll out like an immaculate, amazing portfolio that is like far above average, in the industry, like, make sure that you've got some self awareness, and you're looking at your work and going, is this work legit, if your work is super legit, way, way above the average in the industry, and genuinely, then Instagram is probably going to be a really good place for you in terms of growing. Otherwise, you can, you can also just have like a really cool, if you've got like a really cool company culture, and you're very design centric, I also think that Instagram can be really good for you in terms of your process, your studio environment, you know, some of the some of the process and collateral around how you design if that is, if that gives me FOMO, like, I want to meet you and go to your studio and work with you. Because everything that you do looks amazing and so cool, then I think Instagram is also really good for that. But if a firm isn't meeting those criteria, I think it is going to be like maybe a little bit more of a struggle. And I would probably suggest, you know, maybe, you know, try and go where all the other architects aren't and explore other options, because there might be something out there that's actually kind of easy for you to be one of the best at that doesn't involve, you know, the photographer's you're hiring or the videographers that you're working with all the sorts of things that have become kind of standard fare on Instagram these days, like it is super competitive on Instagram amongst architects. That's just the reality of it. So if you want to compete, then go for it. But but but it don't, you know, don't be close minded to other other options as well.
Ayo Abbas 07:29
Okay, so what other options should they be exploring? Do you reckon? I mean, I'm gonna ask you that one Amy.
Amy Edwards 07:37
I think it really comes always have to come back to Who's your audience? And where, where are they? Where are they going? You know, it's, I think, you know, Instagram is great. And I think you're right, like a lot of lot of practices go on there, because it's visual, and they enjoy it themselves. But then, then sometimes it's not actually getting the return for them. Because it's, that's not actually where the audience is, you know, their industries there. And they get great accolades amongst their peers, but they're not actually getting the clients out of it. So I think there's, I think there's a bit of a return to email marketing, I think it's coming back again, a bit. But also a bit of snail mail, like just regular post stuff, like where you can make something that's really beautiful and tactile and intangible that people can come back to I think, you know, in this age of where everything's very digital and digital overload, I think people are getting tired. And I think there's, there's this opportunity there that people aren't really using. So perhaps there's something in that. I think you really still have to come back to your audience. And where are they? Where are they sitting? And how can I reach in the best way?
Ayo Abbas 08:48
Yeah, at the moment here in the UK, people are back in their offices yet. And that's still gradually being phased in. So but but I do, I mean, who doesn't love getting a beautiful piece of mail? I mean, I do. I still do. It's still really, really lovely.
Amy Edwards 09:03
I'm interested with that. The other thing about too, though, I'd love Nikita, I'd love to hear what you thought on that, too.
Nikita Morell 09:09
I hope that is kind of emails and that but I also think, I mean, I don't know, probably you guys probably know better than me. But I guess step back from marketing is this idea of, you know, what you want to be known for? And what's that? I always think of it as I have this, I guess a framework called the Architects Blueprint to becoming unforgettable or memorable. And it's you need two things need to stand out. And then you need to stand for something and the sweet spot where those two things meet. It's this idea of visible expertise. So you're known for that thing. And what I have seen a little bit of late is people are in this I guess, could be another whole podcast episode, this idea of niching and, you know, being known for that one thing and I've seen a few websites like I think it's Eon Design. They're just focusing on restaurants
Dave Sharp 09:56
Another client oh my god
Nikita Morell 10:00
Really, Dave
Amy Edwards 10:10
A promo for Dave.
Ayo Abbas 10:14
I'm sure he'll have a sponsored segway.
Dave Sharp 10:18
Coming via snail mail. Thank you. I promise I won't do that again.
Nikita Morell 10:28
No, No, no. Yeah. But I mean, there's a lot of things that you know, Vale Architects - Scott Vallantine he's doing? Is he your client too Dave?! he's is doing hospitality design and focusing on that? So I think, yeah, with this niche like, and once you have a focus, then your marketing it kind of, you can do things like email marketing, and that because you are more focused, and you know, you have a clear idea of who your audience is, Amy said is so, yeah, my
Ayo Abbas 10:58
and they've all got specific things that they need from you, as well as it makes it easier to talk to them as well, isn't it? I mean, that's kind of, yeah. But it's interesting, because my email there are, there have been people saying, Oh, well, emails, dead and all this kind of stuff, but I really don't think it is, um, because I was listening to something before this. And actually listening to the whole thing around privacy and the rise of privacy and Facebook, kind of and Apple having that kind of spat at the moment, and what's going to happen in terms of cookies. So I think that whole thing of owning data and privacy is gonna definitely be something that people are gonna be having to deal with. And face and ads aren't going to be as targeted and things like that. So I think having your own data and being able to talk to people is going to be the way forward. But I don't think we necessarily do that as an industry that often. Sorry, Nikita,
Nikita Morell 11:46
sorry, Ayo, interrupt. I was just gonna say when, for me personally, I don't know if Amy agrees about like, when we talked about email marketing, it isn't these like beautiful newsletters that it, you know, take weeks to put together. But I think there's that misconception in the industry as well. where like, What are you trying to say, you know, like one sentence like somewhere? That, I think, no, yeah. But I think it's more about, yeah, just having like, just straight text emails that are engaging and, you know, collecting that, that first name of the person, so you can integrate it in and make it feel like an email to the fact that one on one conversation, I think that just needed to be clarified.
Dave Sharp 12:30
Yeah, I'm with that. 100%. Like, I always have this discussion when I first raise all right, it's email marketing time with my clients, and they're like, email marketing, oh, god, I'm like, No, no, no, not not, like the big chunky newsletters, like emails that start like, Hi, Dave. Thanks. You know, like, just normal emails. And it's, it's just about using email to communicate with, you know, more than one person at a time is the is the simple idea. Yeah. And I think why in principle, were all going towards email marketing, or this using email more, is that I think it's this recognition that like, you're not going to be able to always go out there and find new people, new people, new people in your marketing and your comms like, you're eventually going to have to focus on the audience of like, however, many true fans that you currently have, and actually do more with them.
Ayo Abbas 13:23
It's a much easier sell, isn't it, they're already bought into you.
Dave Sharp 13:26
They're already bought into you. And I think what I've noticed over time is that architects actually really suck on the follow through, like what happens after you after you get published, and they see for the first time and they come to your website, what happens after that, usually not very much, we don't actually make much of an effort or devote much energy to like, interaction number 23456 with those people. So I think that's why we're super focused on email. Also, like on Instagram, we're thinking about Instagram stories, because that's more directed towards your, like existing followers, and trying to be more engaging to your like, current audience. And that's where content comes in writing comes in video comes in and stuff like that. So yeah, like anything that is about getting, like squeezing more opportunity out of the people that already are aware of you, I think is like good marketing to be doing right now.
Ayo Abbas 14:17
Definitely. Yeah,
Amy Edwards 14:18
I would agree on that. 100%.
Ayo Abbas 14:20
So how can you get your existing customers to do more any kind of tips or ideas? Amy
Amy Edwards 14:25
I think I think it's got to be, I think it's based on values, like how, like, what's the impact or the value that marketing is going to have for practice? What is the end result for them? You know, it probably depends on a lot of their goals and what they're trying to achieve and then where they're heading a little bit too, but I think it's really going to be based on the value of what you can provide for them and, and how that can help their business move forward.
Ayo Abbas 14:50
So there's a kind of rise of kind of new features on certain platforms and new, I guess, new features on platforms like things like the creator modes on LinkedIn. And also, you know, more stuff in terms of Instagram Lives. And also, I guess the new things like Clubhouse, or you know, Twitter Spaces? I mean, how can people kind of get to grips with them? And even should they? I mean, for that one to you Nikita?
Nikita Morell 15:17
Yeah. So I mean, I guess the way I approach again, it goes back to an ideal client, like if your goal it depends on what your marketing objectives are obviously, like, there's lots of different ones it could be, you know, to raise your awareness locally, or it could be to be known for a certain one thing or, but I mean, if it is to get more projects or a steady flow projects, and I think, yeah, like it's about, I guess, consistency and being in front of them, because I think the biggest thing is that the design sales cycle is slow. So it is being about like memorability, because someone could be ready to hire an architect today or in three years. But if you're not there, women are looking to hire someone. And that's kind of where it so I think consistency is key to that. Wait, what was your question?
Ayo Abbas 16:10
It was just, I was talking mainly about, you know, the kind of a new channels that are coming up and the new. I mean, there's always new features on social media at the moment isn't there? And I think I was listening to something beforehand. And he was basically saying that like 500 million new users come on board globally on social media in the past year, which is insane. But yeah, I guess it's like, new thing. Have you got stuff like Clubhouse? And there's a lot to keep up with?
Nikita Morell 16:33
Well, and I think, Dave, you could probably speak to this better. But I think also like, you've got to ask, like, as Amy says, like, how many clients do you need? Is that following or being on clubhouse at 24? Seven worth it or like, I mean, how many projects do you need to be successful? Like, maybe there's 100,000 followers on Instagram that you're chasing is really not worth it? So ask yourself, like, Where are my ideal clients hanging out? You know, like the really, really good ones and how do I get in front of them and it might only be five people as we just sent that email. This might only be 10. superfans, but that's all you need.
Ayo Abbas 17:07
So true. So say and Dave should I be on Clubhouse? Are you on Clubhouse?
Dave Sharp 17:13
No, yeah, I am. But I just ignore it. I was so bullish on it. I even I bet you know, architects who are jumping onto it the first couple of weeks it came out I had architects booking meetings with me going like, could we pay you to like talk to us about our our our Clubhouse strategy. And I was like, I only literally signed up for it yesterday, but I can talk to you about it. So So no, I don't I don't think I don't think you need to just go rushing on to any any new platform, although they do you know, whatever. It's always good to like, the best way to learn about something new is just to like, go and try it out, as I mentioned earlier, but with most of the time and most of these new platforms that spring up, eventually they're going to become part of Instagram and Facebook anyway. So yeah, Clubhouse has already been taken into Twitter Spaces, Instagram is going to have some sort of like Stories based Spaces. I don't know what they're going to call it. But you'll be able to click on Stories. And there'll be a group of people having a chat. And I think that will be absolutely massive for architects where I can start having like industry, kind of chitchat conversations about you know, issues in the industry and the public can join in on that. I think that'll be really interesting. And that's probably the boring version. The fun version is probably talking about homes and renovations and all this sort of stuff. But any any sort of niche within architecture, there'll be like rooms where people can talk about it, which will be great. And it will be such a game changer to like hear architects voices for the first time. Because 99.5% of architects have not been a guest on a podcast, they don't have any videos on YouTube, and their voice has never been heard on the internet in the history of the world. So and because their voices missing, you really don't know who they are as a person. But so yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Which is absolutely pointless because it comes back to the Katie's point about likability. likability is like massively important and instantly, you know, audio helps people to be more likeable. So but basically, I think like the only social media channels that anybody needs to really be thinking about is Instagram. Where am I going with this? Yeah, Instagram. LinkedIn is very legit, particularly even if you are residential. But definitely, if you're non residential, and a very legit competitor is Tik Tok, and that will be enormous. That's like escape velocity, velocity, like Instagram is not just going to consume Tik Tok that's going to be its own thing. And it's going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And so I think it would be worthwhile for firms to think about doing that. Think about experimenting with Tik Tok because everybody's using it. It's much more enjoyable than Instagram, and million miles more enjoyable than Facebook. So it will do well by a
Ayo Abbas 19:56
younger audience, isn't it?
Dave Sharp 19:58
It's a younger audience, but instead grandma's a younger audience, you know, then I think when we grew up, I feel like everybody, you know, it goes up generations, like quickly, like within a six month time frame, it'll be like everybody, everybody will be using these sorts of things. Maybe not six months, maybe a year in six months, but you know, within a window. And if you look at, you know, if you go on tik tok, and look at like the architecture or interior design hashtags, and see the kind of views and likes and engagement that some of these really amateurish videos are ranking up racking up from people that have really like, very basic, basic design stuff going on. It's pretty, there's pretty good opportunity there for architects, I think. Yeah, so Tik Tok Tik Tok. It's also very fun and addictive, and you'll just yeah, you'll get completely sucked into it. So yeah, go on Tik Tok
Amy Edwards 20:53
get pulled down the rabbit hole with with Tick tock, and I'll never get out again
Dave Sharp 20:58
If I lie down, if I lie down on the on the couch and start opening up, Tik tok, it's like, you know, it's like, tomorrow morning before?
Ayo Abbas 21:06
Are you doing a dance as well Dave,
Dave Sharp 21:12
I don't move, I don't even twitch a muscle, it's literally by some muscle.
Ayo Abbas 21:20
I have to mate like sometimes I do kind of go take it up and actually look at it, but I kind of break it down and kind of think, how are they doing this video? And what is it they're doing, and you kind of use that as inspiration? It's a great stuff out there, I really, really, really good stuff when you kind of break it down and see how it all works. But that's why I
Amy Edwards 21:38
actually am i think i think other creatives that using that space really well, you know, like Tik Tok and Reels as well on Instagram, I think other creatives like, you know, like, people who are doing ceramic art or, or painters or craft makers and things like that, that, uh, you know, I know, that's not architecture, but I think in that creative industry, and in that design industry, that really showing their process, you know, in a great way, you know, and they're being imaginative, and they're being creative about how they're going about it. And I think there's something that can be learned there, you know, that architects can look at or designers can look at and think, oh, how they're doing that? How can I apply that to my process? You know, sometimes I think architects tend to undervalue their process, I think they just think it's all about this end image and how beautiful it looks as a finished product. But I think what generally audiences more broadly are interested in is that process and how they got to that point, you know, that's the creativity that makes people want to employ them and make them want to engage them as an architect for their for their project.
Ayo Abbas 22:47
And you're kind of the Markedly. stories on Instagram are brilliant, by the way, Amy? And how do you tackle them? And how, what's your kind of? What's your approach? I saw this question cuz I want to copy the,.
Amy Edwards 23:01
On Instagram stories,
Ayo Abbas 23:03
stories, yeah, cuz you post quite a lot on there. And I always kind of think how spiration, to post and all of that kind of stuff
Amy Edwards 23:11
Maybe the inspiration to post because I haven't done anything on my regular feed for a little while. I think that generally comes from when I get really busy. I'm like, Oh, my God, I that's just going to the bottom of list. And I'm just like every other client that I tell not to do that, I actually do the same thing that they do. But I think in Stories, like I genuinely genuinely like to share things that are of value to people, you know, or if it's fun, or something that I've seen, that's interesting, I think that would be useful to them. As a practice, I think the biggest part for me is is it valuable? Like what I'm putting out there is is is this valuable? Is this actually what they want to hear from me? Do they just want to see me posting another architecture building? Probably not. Because, I mean, they're already following that the reason that they follow me is because they want advice, and they want direction on marketing, right? So whether that's sharing my own stuff, or sharing other people things, like I love to share what other professionals in the marketing industry are doing, because I think that's useful, but it doesn't have to be all about me selling what I'm doing. I know when I talk to other people, I'm kind of interested in what's happening more broadly for them in their industry too.
Ayo Abbas 24:25
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. And now we're gonna move on to LinkedIn. Nikita, what's your approach to LinkedIn? Okay.
Nikita Morell 24:44
I mean, my thing is, is my approach in all honesty is not very strategic. I just kind of have like a running list of ideas. And when they kind of spring to my head, you know, I just write them down and then yeah, it is quite like unedited My LinkedIn. So if I feel something, and that something I'm quite passionate about, I will just write it. And I think maybe my voice on LinkedIn is quite. I don't know, I guess it's quite straightforward and direct. And sometimes it can be perceived. I don't know, like that. Look, let's be honest, like I've had both Dave and Amy, you've probably heard this, but like, I've had a lot of like, not trolls, but like haters, I would say that have really, you know, sent me like nasty DMs, which is fine. I think the thing is, trying to build a conversation, I think, around certain issues that maybe architects will be uncomfortable with, you know, for example, my last post, which got to be traction was I, I started to feel in the, I;m the process of making a course a 12 week course to help architects get their website done. And I've been wondering whether, you know, like a cohort of architects would be open to swapping ideas, because I am part of the copywriting community and we are always, you know, giving each other this is how I present Yeah, sharings part of it, because we are all in it together to build and, you know, we can all raise our rates and value is copyrighted if we do it. And I haven't found my experience of the architecture industry to be the same. So I did post on LinkedIn kind of saying, Why don't architects like to share?
Ayo Abbas 26:16
And that was your headline wasnt it?
Nikita Morell 26:20
And yeah, I mean, and that's it, like, I want to hear what other people have to say, because, look, at the end of the day, I am not an architect, I just don't have what it takes. And but I want to learn about my audience, which are architects. So the more it's almost like, I guess, a market research tool for me and like to understand, like, you know, what I'm putting out there is a value or, you know, where am I getting it wrong? So, yeah, so
Ayo Abbas 26:44
So vanity metrics on that post? What were you looking at on that? What metrics do you get for it? on that post?
Nikita Morell 26:53
Oh, sorry. I thought you said vanity project.
Ayo Abbas 26:57
I just use the word. It's not your company Dave
Dave Sharp 27:01
Stop infringing on my trademark there!!
Nikita Morell 27:08
I can't remember. I think it was around like 14 15,000 views. And then. Yeah, like, again, I'm not very into the metrics, I don't know. But I mean, in terms of comments, I think that that hit a high number. I also what was it? Yeah, once I wrote a post that got a lot of backlash was kind of like your work. Don't doesn't speak for itself. You know, and a lot of people were like, yeah it does, like, you know, and so like, you know, my take was it? No, it's really about using words. And yeah, it's interesting, like to see what architects think.
Ayo Abbas 27:44
But it's interesting, because your, I guess, your messages and actually, it's, it's the truth. Well, that's true. But it's quite hard for people to hear, because people don't always want to hear the truth.
Nikita Morell 28:03
Yeah, and as you know, as you guys know, like, the architecture industry, I think, was up until the 1970s, that marketing was, like taboo, like you were, it was illegal, like, you were not allowed to, you know, market you had to have your shingle and you know, hung and people that's how they stumbled upon your work. And that's how they came across you. But yeah, and I think that's more so in America than Australia, I would say, but it is kind of I always say that like a bad hangover, you know, just like me lingering. This like idea. It's just we need to kind of, like, you know, move with the times and kind of get over it and say, Well, I had that. I mean, the reality is, is you are even though you're passionate about architecture, and it is your, you know, your love of your life, like at the end of the day, it is a business that you guys are running. So if you want clients to make you money to then you can keep practising architects like that is a reality. So marketing isn't dirty.
Ayo Abbas 28:52
Yeah, no, that is such an interesting debate. Yeah, marketing is not a dirty word. But in terms of should all architects be on LinkedIn? I'm gonna ask that question to you, Dave.
Dave Sharp 29:06
Yeah, I think what's so interesting about Nikita's LinkedIn strategy is one of the one of the common issues one of the most frustrating things about LinkedIn is that you post something and it's just like crickets, the the lack of the engagement level is often so low, you might have the same sort of regular people that support your posts. Like you're kind of superfans, and they will be jumping in to go, you know, good job well done. But it's actually really hard to get people to come to respond on the platform. And I think that's because they don't actually, they're not actually checking it that often. And then various kind of other reasons, but like, so. And if your post doesn't start getting quite like engagement early on, it'll usually drop off quite quickly. So I think what's great about what Nikita has done is found a way to get some people to kind of take the bait a little bit and then and start a discussion. And once a discussion kicks off a post can just say Go to the moon at that point on LinkedIn. Yeah, so I think for for architects being on there, it's, it's a really good place to be if you're as somebody who is very much like an encourager of other people, and is wanting to be on there every day to just make positive, good contributions to other people in your industry, even other, especially other disciplines, I would be not so much focusing on architects, if you're an architect, I'd be focusing on builders that you work with suppliers, like people like that, that you've got these important relationships with, and you want to kind of encourage and be there to sort of support their businesses. And there's this sort of mutual, you know, relationship between you there's this camaraderie and there's this really like rewarding relationship that can develop with other people. Like for me, the people that I engage with on LinkedIn, when I do go on LinkedIn, the people I'm looking to engage with are not architects, they're actually you guys and other marketing people. And I know that's a little bit insular. But like, for me, that's the value of LinkedIn is like, it's not necessarily about trying to directly engage your customers, it's but it's about going, who are the who are the relationships, the professional relationships that you actually need to survive in your, in your industry. And so I think it's like a little bit about that. So an architect that's like down with that. And is a very sort of generous and community oriented person, I think it's a good place to be there. But if you're going to be the person who does like your own posts, like Nikita, you have to be prepared to actually have an opinion and stand up for yourself and defend what you think and be open to being criticised and be comfortable with, maybe, you know, being wrong in some people's eyes, or having them, you know, gossip about you behind your back at the next, you know, Institute soiree. Like, there's always that risk. I'm tapping into the deep seated nightmares of architects, which is that they will be at the next, you know, awards jury, and it's like, oh, look, there's such and such who have that to say on LinkedIn, they think they're really special, you know, there's always this fear of criticism, and judgement from your peers in the industry, but you just have to be prepared to sort of tough it out and and do that, because you need to have an opinion that actually is not just trying to please everybody on LinkedIn, I think. And that's why you need to look at Nikita, and not be afraid to be like, I'm going to occasionally have something to say, because if you're not going to do that on LinkedIn, you're not going to really get great results, I don't think, but it doesn't mean that you have to be like, here's the problem with you know, here's the problem with people that are like designing houses, here's my beef with that would be the Nikita Strategy like, this is what I hate about. Like, that's like, that's definitely that's like definitely a strategy. But I think I think also, you know, being you know, can I just have one final thing? I'm kind of carrying all this answer a little bit go. Also, it is a business platform. And I find it at least in my clients, people, clients that post content that is kind of reflecting on some of their learnings as business owners. Yeah, about company culture, about hiring people about communicating about building relationships, about delivering quality work, like had good times, bad times, things they've learned things they've picked up, you know, the little things, those are the things that tend to really catch on and go viral as post. It's like,
Ayo Abbas 33:19
observation of your day-to-day, right. I think we see something
Dave Sharp 33:22
today, that not about architecture, you're an architect, you're obviously reminding people that you exist and what you do and building up your audience on there. But you could just be talking about what it's like owning a small business, it's challenging to own a small business, but that's what you're going to have in common with everyone else on LinkedIn. They also a lot of the people, they're also going to be having challenges running their own small businesses. That's what they're going to be able to relate to. So that type of content if you're interested in business, and you see yourself as a business person, LinkedIn could also be a really good place for you.
Ayo Abbas 33:59
Thanks for listening to part two of my interview with Amy, Dave and Nikita. If you like the show, please do share it with people that you know who may find it of interest as it really does help us spread the word. Make sure you look out for part three next time.
