Ep 80: Crafting authentic brands and storytelling in the built environment with Emma Hutton and Nina Farrell
Welcome to The Built Environment Marketing Show.
Today's episode is all about brand and storytelling but from a consultant's perspective.
My guests Nina Farrell from &Agency and Emma Hutton from Hutton are two consultants that I've known for quite a while and work predominately with mid-sized architecture firms.
Key takeaways include:
How to develop your brand strategy to differentiate your practice
The need to build strong brand foundations
Whether brand or strategy are a 'dirty' word
Ways to uncover client perceptions about your firm
Understanding the connection between storytelling and brand
Links
About the show
The Built Environment Marketing Show is hosted by marketing consultant and content creator Ayo Abbas. It is unashamedly about marketing for architects and engineers, as well as bringing forward voices that we don't always get to hear.
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Transcript
Ayo Abbas 00:06
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of The Built Environment Marketing Show hosted by me, Ayo Abbas. I'm a marketing consultant, speaker and trainer, and I work specifically with built environment firms. You can find out more about me and my work at www.abbasmarketing.com
Ayo Abbas 00:22
Today, my guests are Nina Farrell and Emma Hutton. I met Nina online probably about 12 years ago. We looked back at our messages and we met up, and yeah, it was that long ago when we connected over on LinkedIn, of course, and I met Emma, I guess, in the past few years as well. So this is an episode that looks all about branding, storytelling and its importance, and we talk about it from a visual communications and a verbal communications perspective, which are the kind of two areas that Emma and Nina actually specialise in. It's a really lovely conversation, and it's a slightly different vent from the FCB one that we did recently with Fliss, because this is more from a consultancy perspective, and people who have worked with a number of architectural firms and design firms across the industry, there's a slightly different perspective, but just as valuable in terms of branding, storage, storytelling and you getting that perspective anyway. I hope you enjoy listening to the interview. Take care. Bye.
Ayo Abbas 01:33
Hi, Emma and Nina. Thanks so much for coming on to the show. Can you introduce yourself? You go first? Emma,
Emma Hutton 01:38
sure. Well, thank you so much for having us on the show. First of all, an absolute pleasure. My name is Emma Hutton. I'm a copywriter. My business is called Hutton. Unsurprisingly, I provide brand strategy and words for architects, designers, anyone and everyone who works in the built environment. My focus on brand strategy is the actual branding part. So it's evolving a brand's personality, their voice, verbal identity. And when it comes to the words part, the copywriting part, I do anything and everything to do with words, websites, brochures, books, white papers, award entries, anything wordy, I can do it.
Ayo Abbas 02:20
And you, Nina,
Nina Farrell 02:22
Hello. I'm Nina Farrell. I'm co founder of &Agency and the design director at &Agency. We are an independent creative studio transforming how the built environment communicates, and we collaborate with architects to create award winning and brand digital experiences. I met Emma in 2010 when we were both working in house for an architectural practice, and we've worked together on every single project since.
Ayo Abbas 02:54
Let's start on the whole brand piece. I know my last interview was with child from FCB Studios. Now, if you're working with lots and of architects, you know, I mean, what is branding, I guess, to an architecture firm. So do you want to kick us off? Emma from your kind of brand strategy and word perspective.
Emma Hutton 03:12
I mean, brand strategy is relevant to absolutely anyone and everyone who has a business we always call so brand strategy, we just say, is this foundational piece. It's the piece that everything else stems from and grows from. So a good brand strategy is the foundation, basically, for how you show up in the world, and that relates to architects. Because architects have a business, and they're trying to sell their services. So ask the key thing about brand strategy is asking the questions, who you are, what do you stand for? You know, what are your values? How do you want to be perceived? In many ways, is the root of brand strategy. So it matters to architects, because determining who you are, what you have to say, your values, how you show up in the world is how you set yourself apart, right? There's lots of architects out there saying very, very similar things, offering very similar services. So brand strategy, doing it well, doing it right, is the piece where you create that point of difference, and you determine a way. We figure out a plan. It's strategy, how you're going to speak to those clients that you want to get in front of. How are you going to appeal to, you know, people who want to join your business? How are you going to attract the best talent, the people that you want? Everything stems from strategy, from brand strategy, and from my perspective, the part of brand strategy that I work on is that actual verbal identity. So it's that piece which there's lots of terminology around these things. So the piece that I think this doesn't turn can turn architects off. It's like, oh, marketing, strategy, brand, communications, what?
Emma Hutton 05:01
yeah, why we using all these words I don't understand. Can't you just, like, Bring me the clients that I want? But the big idea is that kind of, we work together on the research and benchmarking, the deep dive part at the beginning, but then my kind of take control when it comes to this vision, the mission, the statements that determine those pieces that we talked about, who you are, what you stand for, your values, and then that is transformed into this personality and voice. So that's kind of my piece of what I do for the strategy side of it.
Emma Hutton 05:10
What's the Difference. What are all these words and
Ayo Abbas 05:36
And then Nina, how do you approach it from the kind of because you're more on the visual side. So we had the verb all the way, yeah,
Nina Farrell 05:42
well, as Emma says, we're there from the very beginning as well, because we we work, we work as a team. So I think even before we even start on the who you are, where do you stand, we have to do the research and the benchmarking part of it, and actually even asking clients how the audience, how they perceive, how they're perceived, is a really enlightening experience. Because actually, one of the hardest things when you're starting with if branding is actually forming a really good brief. Because many times people think that the what they want is the end result, which is the deliverables, but there's this whole process that happens beforehand. So actually getting a really good brief is part of the strategy process. So for example, they might sort of think, well, what, you know, I really like the website. I think it's really great. But we kind of talk to their clients, and we talk to their audience, and their audience might say, well, actually, I don't think you know it's showing you very well. It's not representing who you are. Then that informs how they then look at themselves. It is like brand therapy. It really is. We lay everything out on the table, and it's it can be ugly sometimes, and also,
Nina Farrell 07:10
and also getting people, getting multiple directors to agree as well. So this part of the process, we work as a team. We're there in the meetings. We talk to them, is part of the discovery process, and then from there, without the brand foundations, the tone of voice and the mission and the and the vision and the value, we can't do our job because visual identity needs to be based on something and it needs to be based On a strategy. Otherwise it's mean, it's not meaningful. And often like
Ayo Abbas 07:43
and they need to buy into it as well. Which I which I think is the most important, and it needs to embody them. And it's quite interesting, because I do you know, work on branding process as well, and sometimes you're like, this needs to come from you like it needs to feel like you. These words don't feel like you at all. And I mean, it's quite interesting now as well, with things like ChatGPT, when people are like, Oh, we can just get it from there, and you're like, No,
Nina Farrell 08:06
not if you want your own personality, Ayo.
Ayo Abbas 08:16
I think it is another podcast, but nobody is. But it's the realities of the world right now. That's, how people are starting to think. So we can't, we can't ignore that and go, Oh, we're doing this because it's like, actually, do you need to understand? But I guess, what else you do in discovery phase? You go out, you talk to people's clients. What else do you use to kind of embed yourself so talking to your clients directly,
Nina Farrell 08:37
yeah, so that we also have quite a thorough questionnaire that goes out, which really kind of starts to dig deep into, you know, that most companies that we work with, I would say Emma, are kind of medium sized, you know. So sometimes they've grown very quickly from a startup to, you know, and quite a lot of the time, maybe the so well, quite a lot of it's been done in house, because it has to be, you know, to begin with. It's a luxury if you can actually start with a branding agency when you're when you know when you're a startup. So what we need to do is to look at their business plan as well, and see, you know if it fits with where they are right now and where they want to go. So this is the kind of vision stuff and the ambition stuff.
Emma Hutton 09:29
So the process is, as Nina said, we do these questionnaires. We do almost like perception audits. I think this part that Nina was talking about is like, super, super important, that idea of how you're perceived, and that's because, how do you position yourself? Listen, listen, it's so hard, because you know what you're doing is people have a very sort of one of the most interesting things I think, that ever happens in those kind of initial meetings, is asking each person in the room. Um, so when you're out and you're pitching, you meet someone at an event, you're a conference, you're in the pub, wherever it is. Who are you? What do you do? Who do you do it for? What's the you know, that kind of elevator pitch, essentially, and you get, they're different, right? Like, they can be super, like, scarily different sometimes, yeah. So it's like going in and asking those kinds of questions. And what's interesting in those meetings is actually seeing the kind of revelation, you know, coming across people's faces. It's like, oh, no, I didn't know that. That's what you thought about us. And this is them. This is the people that run the business, that work in the business every day, and they're saying things that are different. So it's that piece of it, and then it's the piece of obviously speaking to clients, which can reveal some things you like to hear less, but are so essential in kind of determining that strategy process. But it also reveals. Can reveal, like the most wonderful insights, little nuggets, and it can buoy them up or give them confidence, reassure them that they you know what they're doing, maybe a certain service or a sector that they're working in, or something that they're pursuing is actually paying off. So those kinds of perception, the conversations around perception, I think, are one of the most interesting things and one of the most valuable things definitely reveals a lot.
Emma Hutton 11:30
And I think sometimes also it, it reinforces something that that client needs to hear. And I think sometimes having that from their clients, it kind of like you can see that it just sinks in way more than if we said it. But yeah, you're right. They're going around the room and going, how do you introduce yourself? And it's just, but you can see they've never done that before, or they've never had those conversations, which is just fascinating, because I'm talking about businesses every day, and it's like, actually, how what are we
Emma Hutton 11:59
kind of going back to those super basic things, and that's why, as Nina says, you know, it often feels like therapy. You're kind of stripping away so much and just getting to the crux of things. And sometimes, yeah, it's just those revelations, what you reveal in that moment and in those and people can become vulnerable, you know, or they become uncomfortable, is probably the right word. You see a lot of discomfort in those meetings if they're going well, I think
Ayo Abbas 12:25
yeah, and then you can bring it back in. I do feel comfortable.
Ayo Abbas 12:35
So why do you feel strategy is often seen as a dirty word or overlooked? Because I
Nina Farrell 12:45
we've talked about this, and we're not sure if strategy is the dirty word, and in many ways, is it brand. You know, people are scared of the word brand, particularly, I think, in the built environment, in a service industry, because I think we associate brand with product, and when we talk about branding strategy, we suddenly started to think about really big brands like Coca Cola and Nike, who have you know, are doing this very, very well to sell a product. But actually the branding strategy process is accessible to everybody, and small companies particularly. So I don't think strategy is a dirty word, because I think in many ways, strategy, architects are strategists. They, you know, engineers are strategists. But when you put branding in there, it's like, Oh, my God, these visions of standing in a room with loads of whiteboards and marker pens, and you're getting your post it notes out, I don't know. So it's not that's not what it is
Ayo Abbas 13:51
that to me, I would have thought it was the reverse generally, because I'm always like, nobody looked for the word strategy, which they don't, let's be honest. I need a website. I need, I need, I need someone to do my press. I need, and that's what they're looking at. So they're never looking for the word strategy anyway. So they don't even know why they bother. Whereas I think brand is like, seen as, oh, we can do colors and fonts, right? Yeah,
Nina Farrell 14:12
well, that's really interesting, because actually, that is my that's kind of like my pet hate, really, which is most people think that brand is just a logo, but it's actually so much more than that, it's made up of two's distinct the brand voice, which is what you know, what Emma and I work on. Emma comes through with without the brand voice, we can't actually do the brand identity, which is logo, color, typography, graphic language, as well visual identity, as in, like, you know, treatments on films, treatments in photography. So, so without these two things have to work together. They have to they're really important. I think, you know, I've talked about this before, but I can design. You a logo. No problem. I can design something in Helvetica for you your name. But what does that mean? You know? What does it mean?
Emma Hutton 15:14
Now, I wish I shared, I really enjoyed that, so sharey
Ayo Abbas 15:19
I 'll design it in Helvetica for you
Nina Farrell 15:25
maybe an orange, you know, I think it's it's so important. I mean, even typography, we laugh, but typography is full of personality, and it's full of character, and we make judgments every day. So if you use a serif font, normally, you're thinking publishing bookie. You know that every single decision that we make once the brand strategy is in place, is meaningful and it's considered so the typography, the color, the logo, the logo mark, is one of the hardest parts of my job, because I then have to take all these huge values and all of this brand personality and put it into this tiny little stamp. But that little stamp is unique and it's yours, and from there, we can then grow, and that's when we come into the storytelling, which is the next part really
Ayo Abbas 16:22
Hi, Ayo here. Just wanted to hop on and let you know about free new services I've just introduced for you. The first is a one hour strategy review where I will look at your marketing plans for next year and give you some ideas and approaches on how you can really make them work. The second one is actually a LinkedIn power up training session where I will take you and your firm through LinkedIn, and how you can get the most out of this amazing platform to grow your business in 2025 and finally, it's an audit and recommendations where I will look at your current marketing activity and give you some recommendations and a roadmap of what you should be doing in 2025 to find out more. There's a link in the show notes to my end of year services, take care. Bye,
Ayo Abbas 17:08
what's the kind of connection between branding, your brand and then, I guess storytelling? Do you want to go take that one? Emma, sure.
Emma Hutton 17:16
So the connection between brand and storytelling is you can't really do authentic storytelling. You can't tell a story without having done the foundational brand work. Because your brand is your why, right? It's It's who you are, it's why you exist. It's what you're about. The storytelling is the action of that. It's for how it's how you say it, how you show it, all this work that you've done in that Foundation office. So the two are to have authentic storytelling to actually, you know, go out there and have a great website that communicates all of these things, that feeds into your socials, that works across every kind of communication touch point, whether that's a film, whether it's, as I said, going out and actually speaking to someone, that's storytelling, and that all stems from whatever you have, you know, decided upon in that foundational stage, in the brand stage, that who you are, what you care about, What's your vision, what's your mission. Those values are absolutely essential when it comes to the storytelling piece, because it's a great way to, you know, you form all these hooks that come from the brand that then feed into the storytelling. Like, it's the dream for a comms team to have a really strong strategy, because they're like, these are our values. So we can create story from this, whether that's, you know, you're an architectural practice, and a huge thing of yours is sustainability. Well, okay, you know, that's going to be a huge part of the story that we have to tell about ourselves, how we communicate with the world. It can, you know, it informs everything. So they're kind of inseparable, and
Nina Farrell 19:03
that with that, that allows us to then visualize that, I mean, we, you know, it's, it's, it's a completely symbiotic relationship. They have to work together, and once those things are in place, it's as as Emma said, it's an absolute joy, because you've got all the graphic elements that you need. You've got the voice, right? You understand how, you know what, what? What this company is about. Is it people focused? Is it sustainability? Is it, you know, a lot of particularly architectural practice, you know that they they think it's just about their work, but there's so much more to it. Stories can be found in every part of it. You know why a certain material has been chosen? You know why has that material been chosen? What's the craftsmanship behind that material? That's really interesting. That's really interesting for the viewer as well the people that are going to inhabit that building, the community. Going to inhabit that that building, the impact that building is going to have on the community. These are all stories and stories that people want to hear as well.
Ayo Abbas 20:09
And I guess you can tell those stories in a visual way, what you're doing Nina, but also in a more kind of, we say a verbal way as well, right? So it depends on how you want to break that story down, or it could be a combination of the two, depending what you're needing. So if you're going through to tell a story, what would I What does every story need? Emma, what's the kind of process?
Emma Hutton 20:28
What does every story need? I mean, what's the structure?
Ayo Abbas 20:32
Is there a structure?
Emma Hutton 20:33
Is there a structure? But now you see your brain, you're making me think about fiction stories, and you're making me think about actual writing, yeah,
Ayo Abbas 20:42
but that's where you apply.
Emma Hutton 20:42
Absolutely can, so you can bring those, you know, the kind of standard, you know, tropes that we talk about in actual creating stories. What's the journey? What's the hero's journey? Some architectural practices, their whole sort of that, their strategy and their storytelling kind of feeds into that. Well, we are, you know, we set up our practice because of these reasons, and we want to, you know, we want to be the most sustainable practice. We want to do, you know, whatever it might be, and being the hero in your own story, that's the trajectory, that's the story that you're telling. And you can talk about the challenges that you come up against, or what you're overcoming, or how you're being inventive, or bringing new things into the industry, into your practice, whatever it might be. But like storytelling, it needs it needs to communicate to an audience. That's the fundamental thing that storytelling is doing. And we always talk about bringing specificity to this, because a good story is a story that speaks to can speak to just a handful of people and really, really connect with them, rather than just saying something for everyone. Because if you're doing that, that's not effective storytelling that
Ayo Abbas 20:43
I just write it for one person,
Emma Hutton 22:00
100%
Ayo Abbas 22:01
that's the thing that's easier connect. And, I mean, you could actually have an image of that person who's someone you know,
Nina Farrell 22:10
that is a brand persona. And that's sometimes that part of what we do, we create brand personas as well of a target audience, because an audience can be vast, but that's actually really great. So do you visualize that person when you're writing to them?
Ayo Abbas 22:25
Sometimes depends what I'm writing, but sometimes I will do that. I think, Who is this going to or it could be a particular person. But also sometimes it might just be that when I'm doing a piece of writing, I just write down the goal and the target audience at the first Yeah, at the top, and then at the end, I can sense, check it and kind of go back and go, is it talking to this person? Are they going to give a damn? You know, like
Emma Hutton 22:47
speaking to the audience is the key thing that I think just gets overlooked so often. It's like, get that level of specificity who you know, what you're saying is great. Picture them in your mind. Write to them and them only. It's this thing of, I was doing some research recently just on residential, small residential, like private, um, appealing to private residential clients who are doing, like, one off homes, luxury houses and all these. So I started looking at loads and loads of websites for research, and so many just, and this is not just, you know, this is across the board in many ways. And you talk about this a lot with other people in your podcast, just like people coming, you know, architects saying, or just whoever it may be, just saying, we are award winning. We are design LED. We work across sectors. I mean, who cares? Who are you talking to? Who are you going to connect with on that in that way of engaging with someone you're not, whereas if you bring that specificity, it's like that super obvious kind of marketing thing. It's like, what's their pain point, and how are you speaking to how are you solving their problem? And I think that's the thing with storytelling as well that we always talk about. It's like creating that connection. It's like you have to be creating a connection. What's going to make someone engage with you? And that's visual and verbal. That's as much like what the look and feel, as much as it's about the voice.
Nina Farrell 24:13
I think it, I think it really comes together and really comes true in in filmmaking. So if we're making a film, this is the perfect union of the storytelling, the narrative, the words, the visuals, you know, the graphics, everything, particularly if we're creating a campaign, for example, for developers, you know, this would be a great example of that. And we try to, as Emma says, we try to think about it from different perspectives, not just showing an empty building. We want a building that's always occupied, I think interestingly, one that's one of the things that I really loved when I worked for von Hennigan and Howard, was first practice that I worked for. They would never shoot their buildings empty, because it was always about the end user. And actually, that is. Really important, and I've taken that ethos on really through through the work that we do, because a building is not a building without the people in them. Yes, it's going to get messy and you know, but that's okay. That's life. That's where life and community happens. When
Ayo Abbas 25:16
you say to architects, they sort of look horrified at not all of them, not all of them. What
Nina Farrell 25:22
do you do you mean? You're gonna put that,
Emma Hutton 25:30
that's the point is. It was like, Well, yeah, who are those? What's that feeling for? Who are those photos for? How are you engaging with them? If there's no one in that space using it, no one enjoying it, no one like we spend 90% of our lives indoors, right? Living in being at work, being at home, being wherever we but we're generally indoors, experiencing space. So whenever we see these images and there's no one in them, it's, yeah, it kind of feels like, I mean, a bit like David, like it's lynchy-en. Do you know what I mean? It's just as a strange kind of like,
Ayo Abbas 26:04
COVID, you know, like I'm starting COVID when no one was out. Yeah,
Emma Hutton 26:08
it's kind of freaky. It's creepy.
Nina Farrell 26:10
I saw a film recently. I can't remember who the practice was for, but it was so beautiful because it they basically filmed the reaction of the children walking into a space for the first time. So it wasn't all filmed on the actual space itself. It was filmed on the reaction. I think it was a sports hall, and these children walked in, and the way that their faces lit up. And I was like, that's, that's it. That's it. You know, it's just absolutely beautiful. So that's, that's what we're talking about with storytelling. I think, you know, human emotion, connection, yeah,
Ayo Abbas 26:46
yeah. And feelings, right? And I think that's the thing that people kind of miss. It's kind of like, actually, that's what you want. This is what our buildings that feel like to people, yeah, you know. And this is how it transforms them. Which is, which is a much more exciting concept, in a way, rather than an
Nina Farrell 27:00
exciting concept, yeah? And yeah. I mean, it's just the branding is the foundations, you know, and then the house is filled with people, and that's the stories that we tell, you know, and they can change. That's absolutely fine. Those stories can change, and that's what's brilliant. The brand has to remain the same, but it is the foundations that we can work from.
Ayo Abbas 27:23
You've got some nice building analogies there, which is wasted.
Emma Hutton 27:27
know your audience,
Emma Hutton 27:29
talk about the foundations, the brickwork and the walls. We've got a good one for like, not not changing the website as well, which is, like, Stop putting new windows in when we're in the design process.
Ayo Abbas 27:48
I was looking at your websites day. Nina, it's beautiful.
Ayo Abbas 27:57
When it comes to websites, actually, how? Because sometimes I know when I do branding work that really all people care about is their website, right? Most, quite a lot it is. Yes,
Nina Farrell 28:08
it's important, though, websites are important, and
Ayo Abbas 28:11
I guess how much, especially because you're working with other designers. I mean, how much do they want, they want to be involved in that process, and how much you left to it? Nina, no, it's an honest question.
Nina Farrell 28:26
Actually, when it comes to websites, they don't really get too involved in the design process, because actually, a website is more than just the design. And Asa, my partner, who is the other half of &Agency has come from a Web and Digital background. So we have a very tight process when it comes to creating websites. And we like to say that our websites are as beautiful on the back end as they are on the front. So actually, so many things are factored and there's a an engineering part of what we do when we build a website, where it's built for the user, and it's built really, really well and it's intuitive. So there's so many factors that come into creating a website. We create websites from scratch, so we don't work with templates. So once we've got the kind of brand foundations, or sometimes as as you know, this is just the nature of what we do, we don't get to do everything. So we're brought in, and we take on board whatever brand foundations are in place already, or brand strategies in place. So there's so many different factors involved in making a really good website that actually, what we found is that we're actually left to it, which is absolutely brilliant.
Emma Hutton 29:49
But what about when it comes to the logo?
29:51
Yeah, well, the logo,
Nina Farrell 29:55
that's a slightly different animal. One of the things that I noticed, and I have worked with architects for a very, very, very long time now, sort of 25 years really, and it's allowing space in their design. Sometimes that's there's a tendency to want to cram everything in which I always found fascinating, because space is such an important integral part of building. So when, when we, when we design a website, you know, the part the design, part of the process. We do allow images to breathe and give them space on the page, which is really important. So I think when we get to the point where we present our first round of designs, they're normally so thrilled that actually the input then becomes more about content, which, you know, and not. I really hate the word content, because I think it undervalues everything but content in terms of website terms would be the words, the images, film, all that kind of thing. And again, Emma and I work together on the content for websites as well. So, I mean, I don't know if you want to talk a bit about words in websites. Em,
Emma Hutton 31:16
I mean words on websites, my goodness, uh, less is more. I tend to think,
Ayo Abbas 31:21
I know I stuff too many words, and I write stuff Well, I think that's what I was just saying
Nina Farrell 31:27
about images as well.
Emma Hutton 31:31
Yeah, it's hard with website words. But again, it kind of comes back to strategy, because if you are strong enough into your strategy, and you have kind of, you know, you know where you're coming from, you know what you have to say, then you can really hammer home those points and focus on that, rather than just saying everything to kind of meet everyone's needs. But I love writing websites, because if you can, you know, when Nina and I work together, it's really fun, because you can, kind of, you can play on how the things are going to look, you know, the size of things, how you're going to have, like, pull out quotes, or, you know, rather than it just being a very kind of straight up straightforward, can you just put the text in type thing? Yeah,
Nina Farrell 32:12
font hierarchy is very important.
Ayo Abbas 32:17
Here we go. I am not going into font hierarchy. I refuse. Is it big, small, round, left, right, no,
Nina Farrell 32:28
honestly, I could talk you to death about typography. It could be my specialist subject
Ayo Abbas 32:33
no
Emma Hutton 32:34
passionate
Ayo Abbas 32:42
So I've got a final question for you, which I'm gonna ask you both. So if I am an architecture firm and I want to figure out my brand strategy, what should I do to get started, apart from hire you.
Emma Hutton 32:55
Go back to basics? I would honestly just as an exercise for yourselves. If there's one thing to take away from, kind of what we're talking about and kind of where you might start, I do think it's incredibly valuable just to get in a room with each other and ask, How do you describe who we are and what we do to the outside world? And after that, I would say very simply, like, why do you exist? And look at your values. What do you stand for? And be specific. Be authentic. Just don't say things because you think you should say them, or that's what other people are doing. Be brave. That would be my advice. Just be brave.
Ayo Abbas 33:34
And for you, Nina,
Nina Farrell 33:36
I mean, it's the same, really, I guess, from a design point of view, get everything out, put it on the table. You know, a holistic approach is really important. Things go astray, particularly in practices where there are lots of designers within the practice, people that can use certain software programs in design. For example, look at look at everything that's in front of you and and start to kind of bring it back together again. But that only works with the strategy first. The strategy has to come first. There are loads of strategy consultants like Emma and I that can come in and advise and help you. But I do think it is a guided process. I think it'd be very hard to do it on your own, just because managing different voices in the room and different opinions, and, you know, you need somebody that's outside to see it. And also, I think you can get quite entrenched when you're trying to do it in the house. I wanted, I wanted to tell you this brilliant quote, which is from the CEO of Jaguar, which is, if you think that good design is expensive, you should see the cost of bad design.
Ayo Abbas 34:56
Awesome. Thank you both. On that happy note, I'm going to say. Goodbye. Thank you for coming on the show.
Emma Hutton 35:02
Thank you so much for having us. Bye.
Ayo Abbas 35:10
Thanks so much for listening to The Built Environment Marketing Show. Don't forget to check out the show notes, which will have useful links and resources connected to this episode. You can find that on
Ayo Abbas 35:20
Abbasmarketing.com and of course, if you like the show, please do share it with others on social, as it helps more people to find us see you soon you.
