Ep. 22 Events, Career Development and Employee Ownership, Vivi Koroma Kala, Jestico + Whiles
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Marketing In Times of Recovery hosted by Ayo Abbas, a built environment marketing consultant and founder of Abbas Marketing.
Today’s guest is Vivi Koroma Kala who does the marketing at architectural firm Jestico and Whiles.
In our discussion, we talk about their work as an employee-owned practice, how they tackle digital marketing and social media and events. We also touch on our mutual love for all things career development related by Amazing If.
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Resources
Jestico + Whiles
Abbas Marketing
Amazing If
Build Up
The Architecture Marketing Forum
Transcript.
Ayo Abbas 00:05
Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of Marketing In Times of Recovery. The podcast has changed his name as I really don't think you can operate in a state of flux for over a year. And recovery really feels like where it's at the moment. So I am your host, Ayo Abbas. I'm a built environment marketing consultant. And I basically deliver strategy content and campaigns for companies who are in the built environment and who really want to do something different and stand out from the crowd. Today, it's April the 29th 2021. My guest is the lovely Vivi Koroma Kala who is the marketing person at architectural firm Jestico + Whiles. In our discussion, we talk about their practice and the fact that they are an employee and trust, how they tackle digital marketing and social media and their approach to events. We also look at our mutual love of all things career development related by Amazing If. If you're a regular listen to the show, make sure you subscribe so you never miss out on an episode and help us to spread the word. Anyway, now let's get on with listening to the interview with Vivi. Enjoy Vivi thanks so much, and welcome to the show. So can you give me a brief intro to who you are and what your role is at Jestico + Whiles?
Vivi Koroma Kala 01:21
Yes. So my name is Vivi Koroma Kala, and I look after Marketing and Communications at employee owned architecture, and interior design firm Jestico + Whiles. My role at the practice is quite varied. No one day is the same, you can probably attest to that being a fellow marketer. One of my core values as a professional is variety. So I appreciate that the role that I'm in at the moment is providing me with that. So in terms of day-to-day responsibilities. I look after traditional marketing activities, promoting the practice and our services, through high quality messaging, maintaining a marketing calendar for activities and marketing material, digital marketing as well, covering social media as well as website and email marketing, award submissions, project photography and videography, virtual and hopefully, fingers crossed in person events in the future. I also look after memberships and PR and media relations alongside an external PR consultant.
Ayo Abbas 02:28
Wow, I'd like to say that's a really easy role and I'm sure you can do that in your sleep. It's huge. It really struck me was actually you said about the employee-owned when you're introducing the firm is that a really important part of the firm?
Vivi Koroma Kala 02:46
Yeah, I think it's a part of, yeah, it's really part of our values. And kind of the way we see ourselves the way we treat each other, you know, it very much runs as part of the ethos of the practice and not many architecture. I mean, there's not many employee-owned architecture firms out there. So we're really proud to have been one of the first, you know, way back then. Yeah.
Ayo Abbas 03:14
A few like, Make's one isn't it. Yeah, that's right Formation Architects but there are actually practices starting to look at that as a kind of model going forward, which I think is quite important in terms of succession planning, and, and all that kind of stuff and feeling part of something as well. Exactly,
Vivi Koroma Kala 03:30
exactly. It's that feeling of belonging. Yeah, definitely.
Ayo Abbas 03:36
And also, I'm going to pick up on something else you said, you said about your own employee core value. Can you tell me more about that
Vivi Koroma Kala 03:41
So I'm all into, you know, career development. And, you know, I'm really trying to be attuned with kind of what my strengths are and what I can get better at. And so one of the things I've identified is, you know, that I, I really thrive in in roles that provide variety, and you know, that chop and change, and I think marketing, because it's ever changing. I mean, we've just seen with, you know, the whole lockdown, and, you know, everything being pushed, suddenly pushed to digital. You know, I really appreciate that. And I feel as if, yeah, that's kind of where my strength lies.
Ayo Abbas 04:20
And I have seen online that you talk to the amazing about the amazing, Amazing If Helen Tupper.
Vivi Koroma Kala 04:25
Yes. I nation, you Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, it's actually based on their book, The Squiggly Career where they talk about, have you read that? Have you read that book?
Ayo Abbas 04:41
I've got it upstairs and I've seen Sarah speak at a couple of events as well. Yeah, they're great for career development.
Vivi Koroma Kala 04:49
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Amazing, and informative podcast as well. Yeah, you're right.
Ayo Abbas 04:57
See I stalk you!! In terms of transitioning out of lockdown, how's it been coming out of the I guess the phased lockdown that we're all kind of coming out of at the moment? Has that changed anything about what you're doing marketing wise? Or how have you found it?
Vivi Koroma Kala 05:11
Yeah. So it's a real kind of road to recovery, isn't it? Right now. And so I actually returned to the practice following my maternity leave after lockdown, two. So it's been a real learning curve. Yeah, exactly. So I really hit the ground running, especially as most things turned digital. I mean, one of the first things I did was engage in a virtual event as part of the Build Network, which was really, really interesting. But yeah, it's basically been a real transition back into digital, and really kind of making that a real focus in our marketing plans going forwards.
Ayo Abbas 05:55
And how much digital did you do before all this kind of lockdown? Yeah, I guess, was a big part, or was it more face-to-face? And now that transition? How have you found?
Vivi Koroma Kala 06:04
Yeah, I would say it was still a, you know, a big part of our plans, we were still very active on our social media channels as well. But I feel the main difference has been that events turning digital, were quite a sociable office. So we really love a good event or tea. And so, you know, obviously having the studio space that accommodated that and not being able to use that and instead, you know, move into the virtual space was a real exercise. But yes, fingers crossed. Hopefully, you know, as you know, lockdown is easing, and we're looking forward to kind of, you know, just on the road to recovery. And, yeah, hopefully in person events will return soon in some form
Ayo Abbas 06:50
do you think that's something you'll be doing this year, do you have a kind of, or you just kind of wait and see and see what happens
Vivi Koroma Kala 06:56
Yeah, I mean, we do keep marketing kind of calendar, where we speak to a lot of our stakeholders. And right now, we worked on the Pitzhanger Manor Gallery project, which is a museum and cultural venue in Ealing, originally created by Sir John Soan, and it's been a 10 year labour of love for our practice. We, yeah, we worked on the restoration and launched it back in 2019. Now, they've been up and down with, you know, lockdown, and the whole pandemic, but they're looking forward to reopening on the 27th of May. Now what that's gonna look like, we both, you know, don't know, it's kind of like waiting to see the exhibition is going to be a year long exhibition called Soan restored, which we're proud to be sponsoring. And so hopefully we can get an event, you know, together around that, possibly before the end of the year, maybe next year, you know, play Exactly.
Ayo Abbas 08:07
Like you do, I think the whole thing at the moment is just flexibility isn't there? You have to just be open to it. Exactly. And not get upset by it. It's like you're building an uncertainty. Yeah, that's, that's, that's the plan right now is like building uncertainty and then just roll with the punches. Right? I completely agree. rolling with the punches. So what's the kind of practice set up for marketing is do you work with anyone else? Or is it mainly you? And you've got a few consultants you work? Or how does? How do you work?
Vivi Koroma Kala 08:36
Yeah, so right now, it's just myself and a director in charge of marketing. But we also have an in-house graphic designer who I work really closely with. And as well as that we have a working communication group internally, which consists of architects and interior designers who work in different sectors, which kind of helps close the communication loop as it were, and encourages wider practice involvement. For me, marketing has always been a collective exercise. So I really appreciate you know, having the architects interior designers involved in the process as well.
Ayo Abbas 09:18
Yeah. And I guess they feed you stories, because it's always projects always changing. Yeah. You know, what's going on in the breakfast? Exactly. You never told me? You find out on the day, an hour before? Like, why didn't you tell me we could have done so much. It's great that you've got that set up? And in terms of Jestico + Wiles they're always quite positive about marketing, aren't they from from what I know, I mean, in terms of the culture of the practice and how it works?
Vivi Koroma Kala 09:47
Yeah, we try. Yeah, we try and get people involved. You know, it's all about that and hence why having this communication group has been quite important to have people involved in the process, and also I find with architects, you know, having them think about marketing early on in their design, you know, because, you know, they also need to think about the outputs of the project, whether it's, you know, the project images or even capturing the process. For example, I work closely, we've got an in-house maker, called Luca, he's brilliant. And we work quite closely to make sure that we capture some of the things that he's working on for projects in order to aid the marketing effort, you know, further down the line. So I do have content and lots of lovely images and collateral that I can push out there.
Ayo Abbas 10:46
And how do you kind of work in terms of social media, media and digital? I mean, what's your kind of approach? How do you tackle things? What do you share?
Vivi Koroma Kala 10:52
Yeah, so social media can be such a huge effort, you know, but what I find with social media is that consistency is key. You know, over the years, it's what I've learned. And Firstly, one of the things that we asked ourselves as a practice was, which channels our clients and collaborators are most likely to be using. And, you know, you don't want to spread yourself too thin, you want to go to where your clients are already. So there are so many social media channels that you can be on. But we've identified that our core market is primarily, they primarily use LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and each channel for very different purposes to as a practice, we try not to get caught up with the vanity metrics, you know, the number of followers and, you know, all the numbers. Oh, my gosh, that conversation. But instead, you know, we tried to concentrate on engagement and said, you know, looking at those kinds of numbers, and our main focus is, because we have a lot of international clients and projects, and social media has proved to be super valuable in connecting bridges. So we try to focus on nurturing relationships, interacting with our online community, rather than, you know, number of followers.
Ayo Abbas 12:22
And has that been working? I guess, especially as, as we've had to, I guess, we've been locked down for quite a long time really
Vivi Koroma Kala 12:27
we have been, we have been, but I feel as if it's a way of keeping in touch with all of our consultants and clients and that sort of thing. That's, that's quite valuable, isn't it?
Ayo Abbas 12:38
And did you take your events online as well? or How did they go? Because you had an events programme and things like that
Vivi Koroma Kala 12:44
Yeah. So that was, that was the big push isn't the big change. And so a lot of our events got pushed to becoming more virtual, you know, using Zoom, we have long standing relationships with industry organisations, such as Open City in New London Architecture, we're involved in quite a few mentoring programmes as well. And these all had to go online. Yeah. So they all have to turn virtual. But, you know, going forward, we're excited for what's to come, hopefully with more in person events with these kinds of types of organisations
Ayo Abbas 13:21
And did you find, I mean, some, some organisations have found going online has given them more reach and impact. I mean, what did you find? But yeah, you can catch more people or?
Vivi Koroma Kala 13:32
Yeah, I feel I feel it's quite difficult to judge, isn't it? But generally,
Ayo Abbas 13:39
it really is.
Vivi Koroma Kala 13:40
Yeah, it's a different feeling. But generally, I mean, having a look at the metrics, you know, the number of people that attend and people who share and engage with our posts, I feel it has increased slightly to say, you know, the year before, which is promising, because I feel as if you know, virtual and digital, in some shape or form, it's here to stay, isn't it? Yeah,
Ayo Abbas 14:06
I think it is, I think it's going to be a hybrid or even like you're doing in person will be taken virtually or, you know, you might record it or I think there's gonna be more, the The only thing more widely and well, more, I guess holistically about the whole thing in terms of an event and what and what can be done, which is, which is a good thing.
Vivi Koroma Kala 14:22
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Ayo Abbas 14:24
completely, completely. So what kind of campaigns and plans do you have lined up for the rest of the year apart from your event? Or your new gallery? The fingers crossed? Yes,
Vivi Koroma Kala 14:32
exactly. So alongside the kind of exhibition that we have planned with Pitshanger Manor and Gallery Soane restored exhibition, and we've also trying to organise a couple of walking tours we're real fans of walking around some of our Yeah, some of our London projects and obviously, you know, COVID, secure COVID compliant you know, playing it by ear, but it would be great to host some of these tours around some of our housing projects in London. Yeah, so looking forward to that Fingers crossed.
Ayo Abbas 15:13
That's gonna be that's such a lovely idea. It's so simple. And I can't. I mean, that's one of the practical things that have come out of this, isn't it? I think it was Foster's, that kind of kind of walking tours for children and stuff like that. Just a really lovely idea. And it's like, actually, that stuff we can do right now
Vivi Koroma Kala 15:31
Exactly. And I think another great thing about walking tours is that it involves people across the practice. So you can have two or three, you know, architects, interior designers, you know, our architectural assistants help with the organising of the tour, speaking about their role in the projects, you know, and the project as a whole. So it's definitely a collective exercise.
Ayo Abbas 15:55
Lovely. It's really, really nice. So at the moment, I guess at the moment, there are lots of kind of spin-off practices, new people starting out in the architectural world. I mean, what kind of advice do you think you'd give to them? If they ever, you know, if you're starting from scratch marketing wise, what do you say for new practice? Do
Vivi Koroma Kala 16:09
you? Oh, it's, oh, what can they learn? And that's a great question. I think the first thing that comes to mind is formulate a marketing plan or a marketing, you know, calendar of some sort that includes several different strategies for cross promotion, including, most importantly, a digital strategy, I feel. But the one thing to remember, especially for, you know, practices starting out is that a marketing plan isn't written in stone, it's ever in flux. So take a flexible approach. And revisions, you know, revisions to the core plan is normal. And it's a part of the marketing process, you know, the most important part of you know, having a plan is to revisit it and to review the plan regularly. So that's, that's one tip I would say for. Yeah. Imagine practices.
Ayo Abbas 17:04
Make a plan? Yeah. The fact that when it comes to myself last year, it's like, I made my plan in February.
Vivi Koroma Kala 17:15
This is very much the nature of a plan. Because
Ayo Abbas 17:20
No and not getting too upset about it. Yeah. It's not happening. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, so I was when I was doing my research on Jestico & Whiles. Wow. Oh, look, it was my birthday last week. And I'd like I'm also born in 1977.
Vivi Koroma Kala 17:41
Happy belated, by the way.
Ayo Abbas 17:43
Thank you. I was just wondering like, so in terms of newer firms or more established firms? Like just because do you think there was a difference in terms of how people tackle their marketing and what I need to be known for? Or,
Vivi Koroma Kala 17:55
oh, is there a difference? I feel as if, I guess one of the main challenges that we have as a practice is staying relevant can be quite a challenge. So right now, you know, in the age of, you know, 30, on the 30, lists and 40, under 40 List of celebrating, you know, for youth
Ayo Abbas 18:21
I'm 44 now, I've missed so many boats.
Vivi Koroma Kala 18:31
Yeah, established practices. Likewise, we need to be adaptable, don't we, and we need to stay engaged with industry. So I feel as if one, one advantage can be seen as I don't know, tapping into relationships that have been years and years in the making, can be seen as you know, one thing and I guess for more newer firms is establishing those relationships quite early on, isn't it?
Ayo Abbas 18:54
Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. Obviously, I said to you before that, you know, I met Jestico + Whiles when I worked at Conisbee, which is probably a good 20 years ago now. So yeah, I kind of think of those relationships have stood the test of time, you know, and all that kind of stuff. So, absolutely. I think it's, it is a big advantage. Yeah. Okay, so one of the things that you are you're the chairperson for the Architecture Marketing Forum. Yes, I am. Why. Why did you do that? Why did you get involved in what is?
Vivi Koroma Kala 19:20
Yes. So yes, I'm a Chairperson. I'm part of a small committee, and he chair the Architecture Marketing Forum. And it's something that I got involved in about three years ago now. And Architecture Marketing Forum is a networking group for professionals working within architecture and design practices is a forum that provides a relaxed and friendly environment and that's one of the main reasons why I got involved in it, especially in my role at Jessica wells where I'm kind of the only you know, sole marketing person in the practice to have you know, you know, company and peer to peer discussions and exchange of ideas. And the forum really provided that for me. Yeah,
Ayo Abbas 20:08
yeah. No, it's cool, because I'm on the committee for Build Up which has a similar remit. Yeah. But you're absolutely right. That thing of I can have marketing conversation. When you're the only person in the practice and everyone looks at you and goes
Vivi Koroma Kala 20:23
Yeah, literally, the Architecture Marketing Forum. And so we meet virtually every month well used to be in person. But we invite industry speakers, and I think that's a valuable part of the farm. It's a great way to mingle with individuals in the same sector, like you said, and yeah, if people would like to join, literally, put a link, or you can, yeah, or you could send in, you know, an invitation request to our LinkedIn group, which you can find by searching Architecture Marketing Forum, on LinkedIn.
Ayo Abbas 21:04
There you go. That's a good plug. In terms of my final two questions, so are there any kind of particular companies that you admire the way that they tackle their marketing? And why can we really industry can be outside the industry? I know there's another world.
Vivi Koroma Kala 21:18
Oh, yes, yes, yes. And so based on our conversation, I'm gonna mention them again, because they deserve a second mention is Amazing If so, they're a career development company, yeah. And so their USP is making work better for everyone. And I feel they do this absolutely, brilliantly, using a variety of marketing strategies, including going big on digital. So I really admire their marketing methods, as they're super present on their social media channels. And they've really connected with their audience. And they show that they're super invested, too. I feel as if architecture firms can learn a lot from their marketing techniques, they've revealed that one of the things that they've revealed is, the key question that they ask before putting out any type of content online is, How can this be useful to our audience? And I think it's a question that, you know, we can all before putting out content or before, you know, engaging or putting out high quality messaging, whether it's on social media on our website, you know, any other marketing Yeah, Avenue.
Ayo Abbas 22:33
And also, their graphic design is beautiful, like, honestly. I love it, because it's like, I am a fan. Yeah, I also, I think it's the amount of content they put out. It's a lot. It's a lot to the week, like a weekly podcast I do. They also put lots of resources around it. And you're like, that's a lot of content.
Vivi Koroma Kala 22:56
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree. But each and every single piece of content is useful. And it's something that you can always park, you know, later date, whether it's, you know, one of them, it doesn't they do pod sheets at the moment, so one of their sheets, you know, to help with your career development in future and stuff like that. And I feel as if, you know, the industry, the architecture industry could, you know, learn from it take, you know, a few key learnings from from useful content that's played by that's,
Ayo Abbas 23:28
that's quite interesting, isn't it? Because I guess a lot of what they do is they break things down into little chunks, bite sized chunks. And they use it that way. And actually, when you think about it, we probably don't do that as an industry.
Vivi Koroma Kala 23:38
Yeah. And it can be quite what they do. Yeah, exactly. And as an industry, we can be quite jargon heavy. So I feel as if, you know, looking at who our audiences are, and tailoring it to them, you know, whether or not you're we're a small architecture firm, that specialising you know, home renovation, you know, maybe speak to your customer see how they, you know, find, maybe they will find it useful if you break down some of your website, project pages into bite sized chunks, you know. And likewise, if you're a larger firm, you know, think about, you know, the clients or stakeholders, how they communicate and how they appreciate information too. Yeah.
Ayo Abbas 24:17
And I always I know, if I have like brainstorming sessions with people, I always say, what, what questions are people asking you? Because actaully that, that is your content? Yeah. Is that, you know, those questions were like, actually, what do I need to pay you? Or how does this work
Vivi Koroma Kala 24:34
the practical elements Yeah,
Ayo Abbas 24:37
which everyone is like that's Oh, that's not interesting. It's like, that's what you get asked all the time. Exactly. That's what people worry about, but yeah, I guess we don't do that as much. But you're absolutely right. I love their stuff. Offer me now. Okay, so, on to my final question. So what one tip would you give to a business leader looking to make the most of their marketing going forward?
Vivi Koroma Kala 24:57
Oh, great question. One tip So I would say, especially, you know, now be adaptable. be adaptable to the times because times are a changing. And, you know, it's Yeah, it's always great to have that kind of versatility. And yeah, that mindset of adaptability.
Ayo Abbas 25:22
I think that's a brilliant thing to end on. Thank you so much for your time and for coming on the show. Vivi.
Vivi Koroma Kala 25:27
Thank you so much Ayo for having me.
Ayo Abbas 25:35
Thanks so much for listening to the latest episode of Marketing In Times of recovery, and I'm your host Ayo. If you want to find out more about the BI weekly show, do check out the show notes which will give you more information about who the guests are and all the things we've covered. And if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, make sure you hit the subscribe button so you don't miss out on an episode. Until next time, bye.
