Ep 27: Coaching, Consulting and Podcasting with Trudy Lewis, Colinear
Hello and welcome to Marketing In Times of Recovery, the bi-weekly built environment marketing podcast. And I’m your host Ayo Abbas, founder and director of Abbas Marketing.
Today my guest is Trudy Lewis from Colinear. Trudy is a communications consultant, an exec coach and a podcaster so there was a lot of topics for us to talk about. I’ve known Trudy from when we both worked at Mace so this interview was a fun one to do.
We look at:
how construction firms can strengthen what they do internal comms wis
delving into what leadership consulting entails and how it can help leaders to excel
podcasting and how it can supercharge your business.
This episode was recorded on 16 November 21
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Resources
Abbas Marketing
Colinear
Calm Edge Rebels
Transcript.
Ayo Abbas 00:05
Hello and welcome to Marketing In Times of Recovery, the built environment marketing podcast, and I am your host Ayo Abbas from Abbas Marketing. I deal with strategy, content and campaigns for built environment firms who really want to make their mark. In today's episode, my guest is the lovely Trudy Lewis, who is an internal comms consultant, exec coach, and also a podcaster. I've known her since we both worked at Mace quite a few years ago. So this interview was one that I always thought would work really, really well. So I hope you enjoy it. We take a look at how construction firms can strengthen what they do in terms of internal comms, which as we know, has been a very, very important part of what we do in the past 18 months. We also look at what leadership consulting entails and how it can help lead us to excel. And we also touch on podcasting, and how it can help supercharge your business too. If you liked the show, please do leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Or even better, why not share something on social media with others? It really, really, really does help spread the word. Anyway, I'll stop jabbering on so let's get on with the show. Take care. Bye. So hi, Trudy, thanks so much for coming on the show. Can you introduce yourself?
Trudy Lewis 01:28
So I'm Trudy Lewis, and I run a company called Colinear. It's consulting and coaching in communications, mainly internal communications. And I've worked predominantly on engagement change, and internal comms. I am also an active member of the Chartered Institute of Public Relations. I am a chartered, I'm a fellow and I'm also on the board, which is due to end this year. So quite involved in the whole industry stuff as well as my company.
Ayo Abbas 02:10
So what's your involvement been with construction in the built environment? Tell me a bit about that.
Trudy Lewis 02:16
Well it's really funny, it's a kind of interesting journey towards that. So I worked in comms working for rail, so I was working for TfL. And then after moving out and working for myself, my first job within contracting, working for myself, was actually with Mace Group, which is where I met you. So my first construction role was actually with Mace. But the interesting thing about TfL is that there are elements of construction in there as well as, especially with maintenance so the main areas that I supported while I was at TfL was actually maintenance. And they do similar things, sometimes with the construction industry. And then I did some more work with another construction company. So I've done quite a lot within that. And within that it has been about the built environment, and how that's been growing and so on.
Ayo Abbas 03:20
And has that been a mix of coaching stuff? Or has that been more on the consulting side for you?
Trudy Lewis 03:25
That's all consulting, comms stuff, communications.
Ayo Abbas 03:28
And what sort of internal projects have you taken on in those types of organisations? Has it been major projects, change programmes? What types of things have you seen and done?
Trudy Lewis 03:37
Yeah, it's been quite a mixture. So, it was anything from developing the comms around the learning and development tool in one of them, to looking at the behaviour element of it in terms of how you're going to engage people, improve engagement within an organisation. So a number of times, it's been very closely related to that. I've done the values proposition with one and then just developing how their communication is generally in terms of how it's set up within the organisation. So it's how the communications works with the rest of the organisation. So I've done quite a little bit about that. And more recently, it was a change programme to do with some technology that was being introduced into the company.
Ayo Abbas 04:38
So are construction companies good at communications? Because I know you've worked in different sectors as well.
Trudy Lewis 04:44
I think they want to be good. I think there's a really strong desire to be good at it. And that's so encouraging because one of the things I would say about the industry is that, in contrast to say, for instance, professional services, they don't behave as if to say they know it all. They don't, and that's nothing on professional services, professional services have a tendency to already have investigated many of those things. So they feel perhaps a little bit more confident of working in those within communication. But I find that construction as an industry, they tend to be a lot more hungrier a lot more conducive to advice, they'll listen to what you're saying, they want to know how to do this better. Like most organisations, they don't always get it right. But there's always a desire to get it right. And I think that's quite an encouraging thing for somebody who's a communicator and working in the industry.
Ayo Abbas 05:51
Do you think there's certain things that construction companies could be doing to improve their internal comms?
Trudy Lewis 05:59
Yeah, I think there's a lot they could do. I think, one is not overthinking, and another is a be a little bit freer with themselves. And I say that without I don't want to be all woowoo. But it's a little bit like, being open to new things. So many construction companies are very, very traditional. And so the way that they've set themselves up, the way how they've operated over time, they're very set in their ways, they're very used to a certain way of being and there's, to me, there's a really good opportunity to be really open and try something very, very new, be a bit freer with how they communicate, generally, because it will put them in a good stead. The employees just want to know, where they fit in, how they can make it better, and so on, and so on, and so on. And sometimes by not communicating or holding back either, because I can't say not communicating because they do, but by holding back or shaping it a certain way, it doesn't necessarily engage people,
Ayo Abbas 07:20
I guess, as well, it gives it leaves it quite closed, then doesn't it? I get what you mean. And actually what people wouldn't know is where do I fit into this and kind of really be able to kind of dig deep into it. But you're right, quite often, it's quite closed communications, isn't it? It's kind of this is what we're doing. And it's, it's one way quite often. So when you're saying freer, do you also mean in the types of technology they use, or just their messaging?
Trudy Lewis 07:43
I think messaging is one thing, but yes, in terms of technology, and how you work with technology. So instead of, we've done a lot of hybrid working over the past year and a half, we've done a lot of isolated working, there are ways that you work with that, that could be a little bit more open, enforcing things like you've got to have your camera on. There are ways to engage, even though we are remote, and one of those ways is perhaps being a bit more spontaneous and contacting people beyond a meeting. I've got quotes up, you know, things like that to perhaps be a bit more natural around how you communicate. And I think that would certainly enhance how communications is handled as it relates to technology. But also exploring that it's not just about the latest tool, it's about getting the tool of works for them. So it's very easy for you to hear, you might be out and about and you hear other peers telling you 'Oh yeah we introduced this fantastic tool.' I won't name any. And you think, yeah, you go back and you think well, I'm going to introduce that in my company. But the reality is, no, it might not work.
Ayo Abbas 09:16
Yeah. I mean, I always find your tools as wel, in many respects, it's not getting new tools. It's actually how do we just turn them around and just make the best of what you've got?
Trudy Lewis 09:24
Well, yeah, and sometimes all you want, all your employees want is a simple conversation. They just want to see, or they just want to see you, they want to see you as a leader, standing up telling them what's happening, and so on. They don't necessarily want needed packaged in any sort of way. Sometimes it's very simple.
Ayo Abbas 09:45
So when it comes to internal comms, are there things that you company should be introducing in the next year? I guess we're coming up to 2022, are there things or trends that people should be getting more aware of going forward?
Trudy Lewis 09:56
Yeah, internal comms is an interesting one because again, as it's not necessarily an entity on its own, companies always hear about it and think, Oh, how do I incorporate that? And they might have a comms person doing things already, they might have it within corporate comms, they might have embedded it within HR. So, but then in terms of the whole function of internal comms or the role internal comms plays, it is critical for your organisation, it's very much a case of the internal expression of the brand. And for most of us, from the industry, we feel very strongly about the fact that the brand needs to be shaped from internal and then expressed outwardly. Now, a lot of companies do it the other way around, we create this external brand for the customer. But in reality, a stronger brand, and research shows that a stronger brand is actually set up, shaped through the employees and then pushed outwards. So the messaging comes from within, you've got your purpose clear, you know who you are, as an organisation, your employees understand the part they play. And they feel passionate about what they're doing and why they're doing it. Once you understand that, that's where the brand pushes out. And so that brand narrative that you've developed for the external gets shaped by that group of people. So there is that thing of we have to have internal comms to shape that because many people think internal comms is just about, you know, just produces a newsletter.
Ayo Abbas 11:42
Intranet, make my intranet pretty!
Trudy Lewis 11:45
Yeah. But the strategic part of the internal comms is what most organisations sometimes are missing and actually need to pay attention to it because it is really critical for engagement for people to feel loyal, and advocacy and all the rest of it.
Ayo Abbas 12:03
I was gonna say, but I guess the past 18 months of the pandemic, I guess, internal comms has come of age, of any of the disciplines hasn't it? In a much bigger way than you've ever seen before. And it's quite interesting now, it's like people are like, you can see more roles for head of internal comms, you can see that those teams are starting to be built out at last, isn't it? It's a discipline that's never had its own voice in a way, which is quite weird.
Trudy Lewis 12:31
It was that thing, we've suddenly hit by a pandemic, we can't go out, we can't go to work. How are you going to talk to your people, you know? Oh, we'll ask internal comms to help us and fantastically, many stepped up to really do some hard work, implement technology overnight. I was hugely impressed having being not one of those communication practitioners who was working in that way. I was hugely impressed, because some of the things that they managed to do really helped the organisation to keep going, because I think that was the challenge. How are we going to keep going if we can't talk to anybody?
Ayo Abbas 13:12
Well, this is it isn't I guess everyone was used to these internal comms systems that were based on the kind of people being in the office and all sudden, they're not. And you're like, What do you mean, I can't talk to all my people. It's like, well, you've never invested in these systems or processes. So they've had to do that. It's like, backfill in a away, right, it's that whole thing of like, go back, we need to have all of this stuff in place, which may have been the bits that have missed out from your investments before, I guess. So I guess everyone's had to kind of step up on that whole thing. But yeah, internal comms people take my hat's off. So the other side of what you do you do consulting as well for execs I mean, how does that work? And what do you do?
Trudy Lewis 13:49
You mean coaching? Yeah, so I do, I probably more call it leadership coaching. So I trained as an executive coach. And as part of that, I create a model that incorporates communication simply because I really wanted I see the power sorry of communication and how communication plays such a strong part in us as individuals, developing impact and influence, and also how it helps us organizationally. And I do feel that coaching is one of the strongest ways to help people to change, develop, grow, and so on. So that's how I do it.
Ayo Abbas 14:34
I'm gonna say, why? Why do you see it as one of the strongest ways for people to grow?
Trudy Lewis 14:41
Because for ages, I had that thing where it's like, how do people change? Putting it towards myself as well. How do I change? How do I actually stop doing one thing and start doing another towards moving forward and having been constantly or occasionally stuck being stuck and not being able to move forward. It really made me explore, what is it? Is it training? Is it counselling? Is it a mindset, yeah. And then I did some coach training and the reason why I went into doing the actual training was just to incorporate it was not to actually become a coach was to incorporate it in what I do. And when I started to do it, it made such an impact on me that I then thought, You know what, I really want to do this, as well as what I do with consulting, because I could see how just by exploring things in a certain way questioning, listening, challenging. It just took you to a place where you thought, yeah, actually, I'm going to take a step forward, and then through that whole experience, coming up with a strategy that works for you based on who you are, it just seemed like a natural thing to do so. So that's the why.
Ayo Abbas 16:10
It's really interesting, because it's like, the coaching part is like, but you can see it though, I guess it's that whole, like you say, the question of actually making you look inwards, right? And that's kind of what it is. And actually, the answers are there.
Trudy Lewis 16:23
Exactly and you said it absolutely right. The fact is that we all have the answers in us sometimes we just need somebody to come alongside you to draw that out. And it's by drawing it out that it gets you unstuck. Now, if you think of somebody who's working within construction as a leader, you know, and you're having to do something new, or you want to move to the next level, you may say to yourself, Oh, I'll go and do another MBA or something like that, or I'll do more qualifications, but maybe what you need is just somebody to walk you through it and to kind of coach you out of it.
Ayo Abbas 17:03
I mean, I always think in construction companies it's when you look at it and you go, you're a really really good engineer. So you work your way through the ranks, you're an amazing technical person. And then all of a sudden, you're a leader, and you're expected to go out and win work, communicate, manage a huge team deal with clients market, the business and it's a whole different raft of skills to actually building a building or designing a building, I always kind of think it's a very different skill set.
Trudy Lewis 17:28
It is totally. And it's not necessarily that I have to fully understand everything you do as an engineer, but it's about that thing that you need somebody to come alongside you to help you navigate that new place that you're in. So if you're a leader as you just said, from an engineering background, and you're just suddenly being asked to manage your team, or even direct reports...
Ayo Abbas 17:59
I find that hard, I find that really hard.
Trudy Lewis 18:02
Well, if you're the most senior person, and you've got to a leadership team that you've got to look after, and then it goes down and down and down. Or even if you're a younger leader, who suddenly finds yourself in a place of authority, how do you, that's a bit daunting. And but you don't necessarily want to admit to anybody that it is daunting, do you? You don't want to say, No, I'm having problems figuring it out. You almost want to go away and think, Okay, how can I become sharper? How can I become better?
Ayo Abbas 18:38
And it's also finding your way through, isn't it? And you're right about it being it's your individual way that works for you. And it is it's just helping people navigate actually what their strengths are. But also, helping them to look at a challenge in a slightly different way. That's quite interesting. And if people are thinking about leadership coaching, what should they be looking for in a coach? Is there something they should be doing? Or how do you find them?
Trudy Lewis 19:18
To be fair, and I'd say this to anybody, it's that thing of finding the right person that will work with you. Not everybody works well with everybody. So sometimes it's a case of almost interviewing your coach and finding the right type of person who can fit with your personality and how you need to coach, be coached. And coaches are out there, I support a company that specifically do coaching, and we're doing some leadership coaching within an organisation, so that's one type of way to do it is embarking on a programme that involves more than just yourself sometimes is really useful because it means that you've taken your whole team with you. So yeah, there are loads of ways that you can find good coaches, I think it's somebody who is going to understand what you really need to achieve. Because if they're focusing on, a life coach might not be the right person, for your organisation, it might be somebody who very, very specifically talks about leadership and leadership goals. And there are some that focus on the high performance and how you're going to really become a high flyer, there are different groupd of coaches that actually deal with different things. I've done things like, works on a collaboration tool. So there's something called Smart collaboration around how teams can collaborate more. And as I said, my focus is about being really exceptional at communication, as an individual in an organisation. So it is exploring what you really need,
Ayo Abbas 21:18
I guess it's quite similar in a way of working with a consultant because it's exactly the same, you can have one marketing consultant who's highly specialised in content, or someone else who's really you know, and it's just having that conversation and that match and that fit to actually really understand, I guess, what they do what you actually need? And it's like, does it do the to marry together? Right? And that's kind of it, it's a similar thing, isn't it?
Trudy Lewis 21:44
Yeah, and we're not magicians as coaches. So an interesting thing that I always do is say to somebody is explore whether or not the person is really ready to be coached. Because if you're not really interested in coaching, or at least changing, then I'm coaching you, and we're always going to be at kind of loggerheads, because we're always going to be a little bit like I'm pushing you to do something, you don't really want to do it, you're not in that place. And sometimes what it is that there's an explanation about whether it is you actually need coaching, or maybe what you really need is mentoring, or maybe what you really need is some training. So it's also exploring some of those things before you jump and say, Oh, I'll get the whole team coached, or I'll get the whole team trained in this, it's, what else can I do? And how else can I really help?
Ayo Abbas 22:41
And I'm guessing from a team perspective, you could all be at different stages or need different things, right? For a team, you're not necessarily you're gonna need training, or you're all gonna be at different levels. So yeah, more of a smaller smorgasbord approach might actually be what you're after.
Trudy Lewis 22:58
I'm doing some master classes that's married with coaching. And I think that format kind of helps in that situation, because you do pull out the different things that people need, in opposed to just a blanket or just coach people. It's really because coaching is so intentional, and it's looking towards moving people from A to B, it has to have a goal and a specific route involved as and if that's not what you're in? If that's not what's in mind, then it's almost not going to be as helpful as you want it to be.
Ayo Abbas 23:42
You need something to work towards. And do you think that coaches need to understand your industry? Or it's more about what they bring in terms of their expertise and leadership and coaching, that kind of thing? Is it more about that or actually understanding the world that you operate in?
Trudy Lewis 23:58
I always think understanding the world that you're operating in helps. I think that does help. However, I do think it is about what your end result is. So I talk about impact and influence. I talk about communication. I talk about getting unstuck, and so on. So, I don't necessarily need to know the detail about construction. But I think a nice thing for me is that I actually understand that industry. One of the nice things is understanding people's personality within those different industries. So sometimes that helps, but no, I don't think you have to have a coach that's specifically around construction, although I think it does help and some of the coaches that are specifically working for construction, have developed tools or ways of working that really work with with the whole construction industry. So that's really amazing. I've met some that are very specialist.
Ayo Abbas 25:05
Yeah I've met a couple that specialise. Yeah, you're right. It's really interesting because I kind of find construction does have certain nuances in some ways in some things, and you can't deny it, you're like, yeah, no one's gonna understand that language, or why they're structured like that, or why it works like that. Everyone's like, huh?
Trudy Lewis 25:22
And all the personalities, to be honest, you know? We're all different. And if we're in an industry, like PR people are really different. You know, we're all different. So it's a nice thing to have a few specialists in the mix.
Ayo Abbas 25:40
Okay, thank you. So that was the end of the coaching bit, and now we're gonna move on to podcasting. So in terms of podcasting, tell me about your podcast Trudy.
Trudy Lewis 25:54
Okay. So, I host a podcast with two other girls. It's called Calm Edged Rebels. And we started this last year probably in the middle of the pandemic, it was the summer. And I guess the way how we started it, and I think I was saying this to you before, that the way how we started, this was just simply, we talk a lot about a lot of things, and...
Ayo Abbas 26:30
You needed an outlet.
Trudy Lewis 26:32
Yes, and we just thought, Oh why don't we just start a podcast with the three of us talking about the things that we talk about anyway. And all three of us are business people, we all own our own businesses. We're all consultants working within communication. We have different focuses, we all coach as well, to certainly differing extents. And as a result, we worked really well together and decided to start it and we haven't stopped. So we're on season four, we're about to go into the season five next year. So it's quite exciting.
Ayo Abbas 27:12
How many episodes have you done? Roughly?
Trudy Lewis 27:14
I think it's about 60, I guess. So it's 12 fours, I think about 12, it's four seasons. And as part of that we, and we'd always decided this, so we do a rom coms retreat for ourselves. So it's a retreat where we get away. We review each other's businesses, we coach each other, we talk about how we can do things better, challenge each other as well. So we're also doing that in the midst of the podcast as well.
Ayo Abbas 27:58
Interview people on my retreat,
Trudy Lewis 28:02
We have nothing else to do.
Ayo Abbas 28:04
So how was podcasting helped your business? Because I actually think people in the built environment should do it more.
Trudy Lewis 28:11
Oh, my goodness, I do think they should for no other reason but to share thoughts and ideas and innovation. I think, for me, podcasting has been about just expressing yourself around the things that you care about, that's important to you, and so on. And so in terms of for the built environment, this is to me, it's like gold dust, you can sit down and talk about some of the exciting things that are happening. Some of even the challenges that you have with...
Ayo Abbas 28:45
Climate change is massive.
Trudy Lewis 28:47
...with the buildings and some of the innovation that's coming with buildings, and how the challenges around actually getting that delivered. I think it would be fascinating to hear some of those podcasts. So I think podcasting has helped my business in that. It certainly helped my confidence, personally. And it's more of a marketing thing more than anything else. You don't really earn any money off podcasts. I think it's networks, people get to understand a bit about what you're about, who you are, how you think. It's a really great way to just express the personality of the company of the business. So if you think of it from even translating that to a built environment type company, it expresses what the brand is about. So I love it from that perspective. I do enjoy it. I like talking. So it's not hard. It's kind of like yeah, I really enjoy chatting a lot. So that helps too, but it's also good that you get to express and explore some of the things that you are interested in.
Ayo Abbas 30:05
No, totally. And I have to admit, sometimes I get people who, before they get in contact with me, they turn round and they'll be like, I've listened to this episode. And that episode, they start quoting it back to you before they even talk to you. Lovely, but freaky too.
Trudy Lewis 30:20
Yeah, I love it. I love it, that people engage with it. But because when you're podcasting, you're doing it in the moment, a lot of the times you don't remember every single thing that you say, and I'm always quite careful as much as I can be. But you never know. Everything that you're saying. And then when people quote, things back to you, I find that quite daunting to say, Wow, I said that, I actually sound sensible. It's quite amazing, it's like, wow, I didn't realise that I actually said something that clear. But anyway, but it's really good that there is something in this whole information age, I think this is probably the easiest piece of information to engage with, when it comes to podcasts. I love them, as you know, and that's why I asked you to come on. So for my final question, so what one tip would you give to a business leader or communicator in the built environment? To see them into 2022? Gosh, that's a huge one.
Ayo Abbas 31:33
It is a huge one. I just thought of it, it's a slight amend of my normal question.
Trudy Lewis 31:37
Okay. It's quite interesting, because I'm putting together a little event around internal comms, it's a communication event looking at what the priorities are, or will be for 2021 and 2022. And it's one of those things that my first piece of advice to anybody is, I think you need to reflect a little bit. Take a moment and consider things like where you want to go. What's next for you as an individual? And what you want to achieve? So it's almost like coming up with a couple other goals that are there. Because I think next year, because we've been, you know, through all of what we've been through, people want to go very fast next year. And so there's that feeling of being a bit rushed, being a bit lost in the rush. And so I think there's perhaps a slowing down, that would be beneficial at this time, as you prepare for the rest of it. The priorities, I think, are to be incredibly sharper people, employees are a little bit unsure of whether they're staying with companies. So in order to keep your people, I think it's really important to look at your engagement, look at how you're connecting with your people. And to consider ways of doing that better. If people haven't been engaging very much. Consider, where you want to go with that. And, you know, again, another big thing I always talk about is purpose, and getting some of that straight and clear, you know, how are your people engaging with the purpose of the organisation? Do they understand it? Do they know the part they play in it? Are you able to be yourself within the whole of that, and so there's, there's a whole kind of looking at being intentional through your purpose, being clear about what you want to achieve. And I think that will set people up in a better, stronger place. Because I do think it's going to be a continued year of change. We've got economy, security, climate, pandemic, you know. I mean, the issues facing us are huge. And so, you know, the steadier you can be as an organisation with your people, the better you're going to be in, the better position you're going to be in the more you can bring some stability. And, and I think if you if you think about it, because of all of the variables that are unsure if as a company, you can come across as really sure, and you're really set about what's happening next. As far as you can take that because it's variable that will put you in good stead.
Ayo Abbas 34:50
So being clear about I guess the stuff that you own, what you can kind of define.
Trudy Lewis 34:54
You can't control everything but the things that you can control, the things that are common to your remit. Once there's an understanding of how you're interfacing with that, and what you're going to do about it and being decisive, and then you make sure that you take your people with you through communication. I think that will help a huge amounts.
Ayo Abbas 35:19
Brilliant, thank you so much Trudy. I really enjoyed this interview. Thank you.
Trudy Lewis 35:22
Yeah, it's great chatting to you. Thank you.
Ayo Abbas 35:25
Take care, bye. Thanks so much for listening to the latest episode of Marketing In Times of Recovery, and I'm your host Ayo Abbas. If you want to find out more about the bi weekly show do check out the show notes which will give you more information about who the guests are and all the things we've covered. And if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, make sure you hit the subscribe button so you don't miss out on an episode. Until next time, bye.
