Ep 58: Growing and marketing your profile online with Chris Simmons
Welcome to the new season of The Built Environment Marketing Show.
In this episode, I interview Chris Simmons, an architect, illustrator and educator who has grown a large Instagram following. Chris is an associate director at architecture practice Squire and Partners, mentors young architects through his Architects INstruction Community, runs sketching schools and has a newsletter about wellbeing. Basically, he's busy, busy busy!!
I connected with Chris Simmons online via LinkedIn during one of the lockdowns and have been impressed and following his content ever since. He shares a wealth of knowledge about working in architecture, drawing and sketching as well as creating brilliantly engaging video content. If you've not done so already - it's well worth checking out Chris' Instagram and LinkedIn profile for inspo.
In this episode we talk about
how Chris uses video content and sketching to engage audiences including hhis process for scripting and editing high-quality content
how he balances his full time job and side projects
the disconnect between architecture education and realities of practice,
the importance of reaching beyond the industry to explain architecture's value to the public.
why more architects should embrace marketing to communicate their skills
Resources and links
About the show
The Built Environment Marketing Show is a podcast for architects, engineers and marketers who want to do better marketing make sure you check out our sizable back catalogue of interviews and solo episodes if you're facing a marketing challenge.
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Transcript
Ayo Abbas 00:05
Hello, and welcome to the Built Environment Marketing Show. I am your host, marketing consultant, content creator and trainer, Ayo Abbas. And I specialise in working with built environment firms who want to make their mark in terms of their marketing.
Ayo Abbas 00:20
Today, I have a very special episode with someone who happens to be an architect at Squire and partners, an illustrator and an educator and mentor, he is Chris Simmons. Chris is someone I've got to know via social media. So it was really nice to have an actual conversation with him, because it kind of felt like I already knew him. One of the reasons I really wanted to chat to Chris was actually he's had a huge kind of really prolific rise on Instagram, where he's literally grown his following this year, from 2000 people to over 20k, which in about in a few months, he's done amazingly well. So in our chat, we delve into his approach to Instagram, and what he feels that practices can learn from what he's done and especially when it comes to creating engaging content. We also talk about how he manages his time to make time for marketing, and with all his various hats that he wears as well. It's no mean feat. It's a brilliant conversation. So I'll let you get on with listening and enjoying the conversation. Bye for now.
Ayo Abbas 01:25
Hi, Chris, and welcome to the show. Can you introduce yourself and who you are and all the things that you do?
Chris Simmons 01:30
Yeah, sure. Hi. So I'm Chris Simmons. I'm an architect. And what I call myself an architect, Illustrator and educator. That's kind of my personal branding. Exactly. So. So I've been qualified as an architect for almost a decade now. I've been at Squire and Partners. I'm an associate director there. So we're a one of the largest London based practices founded by Michael Squire, who unfortunately recently passed away and now his son and two other partners. And we do lots of large scale, you know, high end residential offices, hotels, out of our very lovely department store home in Brixton, which some people might know, I do because I go to upstairs. Yeah, we're very lucky. It's wonderful. So in my, in all of my sort of side projects, so outside of my day job, I run Architects Instruction. So that is a mentoring platform. So we help sort of young to mid career architects and interior designers to sort of progress in their careers to kind of support them, finding jobs, and you know, with all that sort of thing, and then providing sort of one to one mentoring, and all those sorts of things. And that's my kind of really big, key passion and kind of talking point in, in architecture really is the kind of support of younger generations mentoring, the connection between university and practice, and you know, all those sorts of things that are the main things I kind of talked about and stuff.
Chris Simmons 03:15
Then alongside that, I have kind of two other streams of interests, one's kind of wellness, the sustainability and I have a kind of newsletter and a channel about that called the well meaning architect. Yeah. It's not as big, but it's, you know, it's growing. And we also have a illustration side with a thing called drawn, which is basically where I put all my illustrative work and take on sort of commissions from companies to do kind of, you know, illustrations and things. And yeah, I basically take on far too much. And I
Ayo Abbas 03:53
My next question was going to be how do you do all that and have 3 children!
Chris Simmons 03:57
Exactly, yeah, my wife, my wife asked me similar questions. I think the thing I always tell people is that if I didn't, so I live in, I live in Kent. And I commute to Brixton every day. And I always tell people that if I didn't have my commute on the train, I probably wouldn't do all of these, you know, side projects and extra bits and pieces. And I think for me, it's kind of one of those focused periods that I can't do anything else in, you know, I can kind of sit on the train and have a nap or something
Ayo Abbas 04:23
That's my train journey and that's like, I'll do this, I'll write about my script.
Chris Simmons 04:28
Exactly. So that's where a lot of my drawn work comes from, and where lots of sort of the articles or the ideas for the videos and stuff sort of emerge from so yeah, I don't think I'd be doing anything without that because as as you said, three young children as well. It's kind of a lot of stuff. You know, I'm quite good at time management.
Ayo Abbas 04:51
I feel like you must be the boss with that lot. I feel like thats alot, hats off to you. It's really cool. And I guess I like it. The reason I kind of brought you on was because Instagram, you've grown a huge amount on Instagram in a really short period of time. Tell us a bit more about that.
Chris Simmons 05:10
Sure. So I started posting work on Instagram, in lockdown. So I had my personal Instagram account, like a lot of people, you know, put the old photo of buildings here and there on it. And then during lockdown, I found myself, I mean, I've always drawn for pleasure sort of thing. I've always been been big into illustration stuff. And I started connecting with other artists and illustrators on Instagram, and really got something from the act of drawing like, every day, I would, you know, at the end of the day, or when the kids were doing something else, I would sit down for half an hour and just draw something and it was that really cathartic thing of,
Ayo Abbas 05:56
yeah. At the end, something to do. Yeah,
Chris Simmons 05:58
yeah, completely. And just like having time for myself. Yeah, completely. So I started doing that. And then I thought, Oh, I'll, I'll start posting them online, sort of thing. And I started specifically doing them on yellow tracing paper. So it's a very kind of architecty looking thing, you know, the sort of canary yellow trace and black ink drawings. So I started posting them online, and they started getting quite good sort of interactions and stuff. And at that point, it was just about having nice conversations with other artists, and they would do these kind of drawing challenges. So they would set someone would post a photo, and then you would, all the kind of artists around them would post their versions of that drawing with the same sort of hashtag. And everyone will connect over their mutual love drawing and connection with other people. So it all sort of stemmed from there. And then obviously, I saw, to scale. So Sanna is a young architect or was a, I think she was a part one or part two, at that point. And she's she was posting about her experiences at university, and I started to see this and think, Wow, that's a really, you know, for someone of that age, kind of showing people what architecture universities really like. And that sort of thing is really incredible and interesting. And if I was, you know, back at university doing that, I would have found that incredibly interesting and helpful as well. So I thought, maybe I've got something to offer, from, you know, slightly, I tell people, I'm old enough to be experienced, but young enough to be kind of relatable and relevant to people. So I think, I hope at least I'm on TikTok, so I must be relevant.
Chris Simmons 06:18
So, yeah, so I started thinking, maybe I've got something to help people that are, you know, a couple of years behind me, or, you know, just starting out in practice, because that's typically in architecture, the biggest hurdles you get, or when you finish university, you go into practice, and you just go, Oh, my God, what is this? This is nothing like, I'm used to. Yeah, the disconnect. Exactly. So I thought I could kind of, you know, talk about those things. And so started posting on there and, you know, intertwining, drawing work with, you know, kind of ideas, and you know, carousels and all this bits and bobs. And I think I was doing that for I think it probably for two years, I'd sat at maybe 2000 followers, which is fine and dandy sort of thing. But wasn't, wasn't out there sort of thing. I mean, I was starting to have conversations with people and interesting things were coming together and stuff. And it was only really when I engaged with video content that it really sort of took off. And I can I can completely understand, you know, Instagram as a platform was at that time was trying to push rules. It was the new trendy cool thing. So I think a lot of it is about timing sort of thing. Because there's there's lots of people that kind of joined Instagram at the beginning. And when I was getting involved, and they had 100,000 followers, and I was like, Oh my God, how can you do that sort of thing? That's amazing. You can't do that. You can't exactly. So yeah, it's it's that kind of little bit of timing. So I started posting videos at a time when videos were really being pushed, I think. And it just kind of took off. So we're now at 22,500, which is very nice. But I think the videos in particular, I mean, one it's kind of helped with my kind of camera confidence and things like that. The technical know how of editing things and putting things together and stuff. You know, it's all very interesting and, you know, like, lots of many geeky young boys that like getting into the details of things. So all of that hurdles of
Ayo Abbas 09:59
Did you learn it all on Youtube? how did you? How do you Yeah, there's quite a lot that
Chris Simmons 10:04
Everyone learns everything is, everything is YouTube videos now. So. But I think it's, it's, it's one of those things that seems impenetrable until you do it and it's it's like anything as it seems a lot of work and a lot of hassle, but you get into the swing of it, and it's, it's actually enjoyable, I actually really enjoy doing it. So yeah, it's been an amazing sort of progression. And that's, again opened up lots of new doors and avenues that weren't available before. And yeah, I think that's the crux of, you know, this whole social media thing that I come away from is that so many new opportunities have been opened up to me by just by putting myself out there. And, you know, it's a bit of effort and a bit of work and a lot of consistency and stuff, but it's just like, you know, I could just be sitting at home and doing stuff. Yeah, it's worth it. It's really interesting. Even even, just having nice conversations about with people about different things I've said, or different things that they've read of mine or watched of mine. And it's a connection point, you know, whereas, you know, before it would be something else. And this is opens the door to new things. So sorry, there's a bit of a rambling answer.
Ayo Abbas 11:24
No, no, it's good. And like, so when it comes to your videos, so you do all the everything and scripting yourself and you. So what do you do? What's your process? Yeah, so
Chris Simmons 11:34
I think, I kind of, I've looked at lots of other sort of creators around the architecture space and and just, you know, general, how people talk to camera, the length of the videos, the way they're sort of scripted. The way they're sort of segmented into the intro bit, the body the, the sort of conclusion bit. So I took a while to kind of understand, you know, how you put the scripts together and stuff like that. And to be fair, I'm, I did that thing that they tell you not to do and just obsess obsess about the kind of equipment and software and things so, you know, everyone advises, just do it on your iPhone, you know, just just,
Ayo Abbas 12:15
You didn't did you? I saw your setup, you shared it.
Chris Simmons 12:18
ya know, completely.
Ayo Abbas 12:20
I looked and said Wow, he's got everything.
Chris Simmons 12:22
Yeah. So I ordered bits and pieces, you know, one thing at a time, and my wife would get deliveries and be like, what's this? Oh, no, it's fine. It's on the company's
Ayo Abbas 12:31
got a really nice camera.
Chris Simmons 12:33
Yeah, exactly. And. But that's, I mean, that's, that's the problem is that you go down this rabbit hole of things. And I convinced myself that I couldn't do this thing yet until I had this one thing. And I couldn't, you know, I couldn't edit the videos yet until I bought Final Cut sort of all these bits and pieces that everyone tells you not to do, I did it. But it did also allow me to really kind of get to grips with how you put things together, how you script things, how you edit things. And I suppose there's nothing like learning on the job. But I did kind of do a lot of research because I'm that sort of person.
Ayo Abbas 13:11
When I started the podcast, I think exactly the same thing. You geek out, you're suddenly like, oh how do you do this, how they do that? And I was I was finding I was listening to podcasts and I was like, I was basically deconstructing them. So like, that's what their structure is. And this is the question, but
Chris Simmons 13:27
I think there is something really fascinating about the art of it. Because, you know, you know, I'm an architect talking to other architects, we obviously all care about how things are crafted, how things are put together, and the quality of things. So, you know, the intention is that you put something out that seems thought through. And, you know, I think sometimes we can fall into the trap with social media of just falling back onto our Canva templates and things like that. But you know, the reality is that I want to be putting out things that, like you say, that I'm proud of that are specific to me that aren't just generic, because I mean, you know, all I see now is videos of AI can do this for you, and AI can do that for you. And you can you can get a video script and split it into this and you know, it's like, yeah, but people will kind of see through that as well it's all about this kind of authentic thing. And, you know
Ayo Abbas 14:23
and actually, do you know what people can tell when you've put thought into it? I think my last podcast interview was Hoare Lea, and she said, you know, it takes us like six months to do one of our major thought leadership campaigns. And she goes, it takes a long time. And you're just like, people aren't used to that anymore. It's like, it's possible. And it's like, that's how they produce really good stuff. It's, it's that.
Chris Simmons 14:45
yeah, interestingly, I put a video online the other day about how long architecture takes you know, in architecture, you have to take the slow road sort of thing. And it is that thing of like just appreciating that, you know, good work and quality things do take a bit of time and I mean, it does sit at the, at the opposite end of you know, when social media is like, No, you have to be consistent. You have to post every day, you have to do this, this and that sort of thing. There are pressures. And I think, I mean, that's kind of one of the reasons where I not fell out of love with it. But when I was doing the drawings, for example, it started as a sort of nice happy thing. And then I would be like, no, no, I need I need to do this because I need to post. And its that thing? Exactly. Because I have, my wife is an amazing woman. And she is very rational. Like, she's a very, she's the perfect kind of Ying to my Yang sort of thing. Like, she's the one that sort of balances me out. So I would be like, No, you're obsessing that I have to have to finish this drawing and post it and do this, because it has to be on this date sort of thing. It's just like, why are you doing it? If you're not enjoying it anymore? Like, why are you doing it and I think there is a little bit about the sort of whole social media cycle that I think the video thing has kind of helped, because it has, it's been a new thing that's let me kind of really embrace something. But I think there is that kind of side to it, that that is kind of the hamster on the wheel type thing.
Ayo Abbas 16:10
And you have to be you have to be careful not to fall out of love. It's like the podcast, I always find that I do stuff in seasons or take a summer off, or I'll get to a certain stage, just think I don't feel like doing these right now, you know what I mean. So I will take some time off. So that I still continue with the show, because I've always feel like it's a lot of work. And you know what I mean? usually sometimes just come off that treadmill? Because, yeah, because you're probably moving at a rate that most people aren't.
Chris Simmons 16:38
I think that's the kind of, you've kind of put the fear of God into you, its like, if you're not moving forwards, then what are you doing? You know, I mean, we are judged on the metrics of the follower count, and if that's not growing, then it's just Oh, my God. But then if I think about the two years that I spent getting 2000 followers, and I've got 20,000, in less than half of that time, is like well, then your metric changes your scale of what's successful kind of moves, sort of thing.
Ayo Abbas 17:14
Do I really need, do I need that.
Chris Simmons 17:17
Just like what's the validation, when will I feel validated.
Ayo Abbas 17:21
So your wife is saying Why are you doing this? Everyone needs the voice of reason, it's always a good thing. What would you say is your kind of biggest, I guess marketing challenges been in the past few years then.
Chris Simmons 17:36
So I suppose for me, it's my main channels are LinkedIn, and Instagram. So LinkedIn, I really enjoy, that I really like the connections and it feels a lot more personal on Linkedin and, you know, I've made a lot more kind of, sort of familiar colleague like connections in LinkedIn, because obviously, everyone's coming in from a more sort of business orientation and things like that. And then Instagram is a lot more, I would say, where I get my sort of mentoring students from, or maybe that's a demographic thing of a younger age slightly, or, you know, because the video content is pushed more. So I think my point is that the video has been incredibly successful on Instagram. But Linkedin just sort of sticks two fingers up to my videos and doesn't give a, you know,
Ayo Abbas 18:33
Supposedly, last year, they were championing video, but to be honest, it didn't really seem to apply. It didn't, it didn't, you didn't sit there. And like, if you do lives and stuff on LinkedIn, it's like, you use an external tool to do it, which you have to do like stream yard. But like it, like crushes your reach straightaway, just kind of like this weird thing where you're like, it's been shown to 50 people, like, that's the whole event and you're just like, This is weird.
Chris Simmons 18:59
I honestly don't really understand it at all. And it's kind of one of those weird dynamics that then you have to kind of work out is what do you post differently on there than you do on the other one, and, you know, obviously, you guys are experts in in doing that, but I just kind of throw everything at everything and see what kind of sticks. I mean, the thing I kind of enjoy about LinkedIn is that I can just write things. And that's, I would say, my weakest and most difficult thing is writing. So I'm naturally you know, I'm fine talking, I'm fine - visual things and I'm fine drawing, you know, I very much rely on drawing to communicate and, you know, just draw to instead of talking to the thing, so writing anything I really struggle with and I always have. So I think short form writing I'm starting to get to grips with and I'm you know, similarly. You know, I've kind of taken like Justin Welsh's course on the LinkedIn posting thing and how you put together, it was really interesting because it shows the structure and framework, similar to the kind of how I kind of studied the reels thing. You know, it shows you what works and what doesn't. And, you know, going down into the hooks and the paragraph links and how you break things up, and really kind of fascinating, but then once you kind of see inside the matrix, you see the other people that are probably taking the same course because they're all writing in the same way.
Ayo Abbas 20:29
Right, and you see it everywhere. And then you're they're going, actually I need to mix this up a bit, because I can see it everywhere now.
Chris Simmons 20:35
Yeah, completely.
Ayo Abbas 20:39
Hi, it's Ayo here. And as you're a listener to the show, I just wanted to tell you a bit more about how I can help you get your built environment marketing done. If you're looking to set up a company podcasts are trying to figure out what content you want to create for an amazing campaign that really engages your audience. Or even if you want to get your business more up to speed in terms of how they approach digital marketing, and how you get kind of senior level people on board with workshops and training, then do bear me in mind, I'm actually a marketing consultant, content creator and trainer. But I work specifically with built environment firms, just like yours. So I know the best practice and approaches, but also most importantly, how to apply them to our sector. You can find out more about my work at a bass marketing.com. Or feel free to email me at Ayo, which is Ayo@abbasmarketing.com. There's also links in the shownotes too. Thanks for listening. And now back to the show.
Chris Simmons 21:33
I think the writing is always, you know, a side that I've always struggled with, and particularly recently, because everyone's telling me to do a newsletter. And, you know, everyone, everyone is trying to do a newsletter at the moment. And I've been I've tried to write you know, so I've got a newsletter for architects instruction, I've got a newsletter for the well meaning architect, and it's one of those things that because because I struggle with it, I am less consistent. And obviously, you know that, in this game consistency is one of the key things so when I'm, when I'm not consistent, I go Oh, no, I'll just leave it this week. But I'll do it next week. And then, you know, another week goes by and
Ayo Abbas 22:21
Have you ever tried like speaking into your phone and recording that for your newsletter. So like, rather than having to write, like, sometimes what I do if I've got an idea, and it's mainly when I'm going on a school run, right, and I will, I have an idea. And I'll actually be walking through the high street, and I'll just talk into my phone. And then I just come back and I edit that and that's my LinkedIn post, or that's my newsletter. And that's my outline. And actually, if you find it easier, if you find it easier to talk, then you can just talk it through, and then you just do an edit. But it's like you're not starting from scratch. You know what I mean, I think quite often, sometimes, like you do so much talking, that actually you can probably turn around and go, what the three things I want to put in this newsletter, actually is this, this and this, and this is what it's gonna be and then you just edit. That's a tip.
Chris Simmons 23:16
That's very good. But I think that I think that works with my brain actually, I think I think that sort of approach would would definitely help. Because I think just going from zero to something is for me the hardest bit. So
Ayo Abbas 23:29
I actually might use that it's probably the hardest thing I find to write. I write tonnes for LinkedIn, everything else but actually, My newsletter I'm always thought it was like rewriting the whole thing or like it's just it's the one that I probably have the most kind of questions rolling around in my mind all the time. I don't know why, I'm always pushing lots of content. But yeah, just stuff like that might help. It might be just a different way of starting the writing
Chris Simmons 23:54
Everyone subscribe to my newsletter and you'll see my
Ayo Abbas 23:58
You will like, omg he definetely spoke this one didn't he. How would you define successful what you're doing at the moment,
Chris Simmons 24:07
it's kind of interesting, because because I am a full time architect. So by you know, I'm, I'm a full time architect a lot of my time effort, everything goes into my day job, you know, and it has to and you know, that's my role and you know, that's super important. And I think that's, my always gonna be my focus is being an architect and that's, that's where I want to be sort of thing so I feel like you know, that is a success and I'm happy with that and I'm happy how everything works with that. So I think everything else is just kind of like a bonus really for me is just like really nice extra things to do. And I was having this conversation the other day because I don't kind of call myself a content creator or you know, these kind of cool kid things but I think it's my extra bits and pieces are more like content creation than they are kind of fully fledged businesses of their own, if you get me. So it's one of those things that I get, in all, honestly, you know, I'm never, you know, based on how much work I get from these extra bits and pieces, they are always, you know, always going to be bits on the sides, they're not, you know, to my mind, kind of viable, separate businesses, but they are kind of things which I get so much from, you know, just just being able to, you know, help other younger architects do things help when they feel lost in practice, or in university or, you know, support people is super gratifying. And, and, obviously, I charge a bit of money for my time sort of thing to balance it all out. But it, it is the that I mean, for me, that's the kind of metric of success in those sorts of senses is getting so much from it. And that's where I started this other sort of Avenue, which is the well meaning architect, which is trying to talk to kind of homeowners and people looking to renovate and things like that about architecture, what architects do, how people can improve their homes in a sort of sustainable and, you know, sort of wellness type things. And so that is kind of like, you know, I've got one kind of lens, which talks inwards at architects and people I'm familiar with, but also, I'm also trying to talk outwards at people that have an impression of architects, which might be wrong, right, or somewhere in between sort of thing, because, however much we, you know, how many bloody LinkedIn posts, I talk about architects being misunderstood or, you know, not valued, or, you know, all this
Ayo Abbas 26:49
You've all got to be part of changing that process, though, haven't you and that thing, and using normal language that people actually understand. By that, yeah,
Chris Simmons 26:58
I think its moving forward. But you know, there is that, there's still that sort of subset of architects which are, you know, it navel gazing type, you know, big language and misunderstood geniuses and artists and stuff. And I think if the one thing I can do with with some of my work is to get away from that idea, and just show that they're all just normal people trying to do good jobs and help things and, but there are lots of people doing good things about that, you know, there are a growing amount of architects that are a lot more open on social media. And I think that is one of the joys of the social media side of things is that things are shown a lot more like just being able to see behind the scenes and you know, how things are actually put together. And a lot of the mystery is taken out of it. And it's, you know, there isn't this gatekeeping thing of, you can't see behind the curtain, because then we won't be able to charge you money for it. It's, it's more like, we're going to share how we work and why we're special and why we're good at what we do. And you can be involved in the journey
Ayo Abbas 28:08
Completely. And it's that whole storytelling of your origins, what you're doing your process and because otherwise, you're leaving it up to people to kind of decide what an arc architect does, which is why nobody, people just think it's just drawings, it's like to do so much more, you know, you can give advice right at the start to make sure that briefs right, or that you're asking the right question, you know, there's lots of richness that you bring to the whole process. But I think, until people start articulating on that in a way that humans can understand, rather than other architects, it's just, it's just not going to land. And but this is great to see that more and more people are doing that as well, because it's just like, we need it. We definitely need it.
Chris Simmons 28:45
Completely and it's weird. I think University has a lot to blame for that. I mean, I love architecture university life, I absolutely loved my time there. Like I love all the theory stuff. I love all the geeky things of just, you know, that sort of inward looking stuff. I'm really into it. But I think I also am able to balance that with the realities of what practices like what getting clients and, you know, programmes and being instructed and dealing with things on site, you know, it's, it's always that disconnect between the two. And then that disconnect becomes projected outwards, because there's still you know, there's kind of between university and practice, even the people in university don't quite know what it is like to be an architect and the things you're taught in university aren't quite the same things unnecessarily are relevant in practice. And it's that thing of like, you know, if the students being taught about architecture don't quite know what it's like to be an architect in practice, how the hell are, you know, clients or people that aren't in there, going to be understanding those things. And so people get so stuck in that education system that then the only sort of validation we do is look to our peers, you know, all of our All of our comps and websites and things are all just made out to be impressed by other architects. You know, there's so many impenetrable architecture websites and you know, things like that. And it's without stopping and kind of going, who is this for? It's like
Ayo Abbas 30:18
if you don't know where to click you can't actually find any information. Yeah.
Chris Simmons 30:25
What's the point of guarding this thing? If, if ultimately, you know, architecture is a service based industry, you know, you're you're providing a service for somebody who wants to either make money through, you know, developing a site or wants to improve x or y or solve a problem through doing, you know, that sort of thing. Why? Why is it so bad to kind of talk to those people or to address yourselves to those people? we're all bonkers and backwards with everything, it's kind of?
Ayo Abbas 30:58
Yeah, it's very interesting. No, I'm writing websites at the moment. So right and deep in the, it's always about them, not you. So what would you what advice would you give to a practice or people or individuals who are looking to grow an online presence? Maybe on Instagram,
Chris Simmons 31:18
you see a lot of architectural content on Instagram, which is, again, nice pictures of nice buildings. And that'sthat's great. And I think that would have worked a while ago, on Instagram, for me, you know, back in the days when we were all impressed by a still image, but putting a couple of still images into a video, I don't think is quite going to crack it these days, even if you put it to one of these cool tunes that all the kids are using, but it's
Chris Simmons 31:56
I've never done one of those.
Chris Simmons 32:04
So yeah, So my point was, it really is that I think having a personality and putting yourself on camera is really important. And I think, especially if you're a practice, especially if you're like a small practice, and you're trying to sell yourself as the design as the person who, you know, the client will be working with, you know, you're presenting yourself, your small team, and, you know, it's about the person and about the skills and the ability and the advice and things like that. So, yeah, I think if you can take a leap, and be brave, and stand in front of the camera, and talk about design and talk about your work and talk about the buildings and you know, and also include a couple of nice pictures and stuff. I think that's the way forward for me. And it kind of it obviously breaks down the barrier. Because when I phone up studio XYZ sort of thing. Yeah. You know, particularly if you've got a name, which is the brand name or something like that, it doesn't have that, you know, it's kind of devoid of personality sort of thing. Yeah, I think it's a it's a people connection thing, you know, like we want there's a I can't remember her name, but there's an Australian. She's an architectural interior designer from memory. And she does, you know, videos of her just stimulus, but it's just sitting to the camera and saying, you know, five tips about doing a utility room or something. It's like, super specific. Yeah. But she's she's done hundreds of them. And she's got a following of about 200,000 followers or something, because she's really useful. Yeah. And it's those things. Like, it sounds a bit mundane. But actually, that's really like, if I'm designing a utility room that's really bloody useful. It's, and it's all stuff that we kind of know and think about in the process, but it's something that a client might not. And it's kind of like, you know, half of your brain says, oh, no, I can't tell them where to put the toilet, because then they'll just they won't hire an architect to tell them where to put the toilet. And it's like, well, if they're going to do that, they're not going to hire architect anyway. You know, if they're in that mindset, I can do it myself, then they're not your client. Maybe you can sway them 5%, but they're the wrong people. But the people that can see you giving your advice and say, Oh, that's a really useful thing. I wonder what else they can help me with, if they're that thoughtful about this kind of thing, is super engaging, and showing that kind of skill set and articulating it in a kind of clear, punchy kind of way. That speaks volumes to clients, you know, it's gonna break down that barrier is going to show that you kind of know what you're talking about, that you're willing to share the information. Yeah, and for me, it does so much of all that front end stuff that you would do in trying to find an architect, it's not just about, you know, finding someone that cost the right amount, finding someone in your local area, you know, you're making, you're kind of bringing yourself into their living room and kind of solving those sort of miniature problems to then take on the, the bigger problems, because a lot of a lot of the times people don't know what they kind of want anyway, you know, it's about opening that idea.
Ayo Abbas 35:25
So funny, you said that, because I had I was on a advisory board yesterday. And it was for a consulting type firm. And it was just so interesting that they hadn't realised that bit where they were sitting there figuring out that brief for that person, or what the right brief was, was so valuable, is probably the most valuable, and they just weren't talking about you. Huge. And I was like, people don't know what they want. They don't! come to you and go, it's a marketing challenge. You're like, No, it's not, it's something completely different. And I think and I think it's that part, and that's where the value is for people really, really is. So yeah.
Chris Simmons 36:03
Because architects are always particularly good at looking at the bigger picture. You know, I think that's one of our really good skills is that we can kind of look at things that are kind of that big, but then we can also look at things from a building or a city wide, or, you know, political wide sort of problems sort of thing. And when it comes to all of this side of things, it's, it's like we're so obtuse in our understanding of it. And I think it does hark back to that traditionalist architect that, you know, the RIBA years ago said you weren't allowed to advertise, you know, so, people have got this thing in their head that Oh, no, it's, it's either bad or crass. Or
Ayo Abbas 36:41
we don't need to do that. Yeah, completely,
Chris Simmons 36:43
completely. And it's, it's such a strange thing. And if architects actually open their mind to it, and just accept it and move forward and use all their kind of design skills, you know, all the ways they think and communicate about ideas, and, you know, we're all visual thinkers and communicators and stuff. So people, you know, we can be bloody good at this stuff. And it's like, once you embrace it, then, yeah, I think it's, it's gonna all open up and there'll be some really good stuff. But yeah, I think at the moment, there are people doing interesting things, but it's, growing, I suppose.
Ayo Abbas 37:22
Fantastic. So I look forward to seeing more architects do more interesting stuff. Thank you so much for coming into the show, Chris. Thank you.
Chris Simmons 37:30
No problem.
Ayo Abbas 37:35
Thanks so much for listening to the built environment marketing show. Don't forget to check out the show notes which will have useful links and resources connected to this episode. You can find that on www.abbasmarketing.com And of course, if you liked the show, please do share it with others on social as it helps more people to find us. See you soon.
