Ep 78 : Positioning for the future: Creating a brave, new brand strategy and voice, Fliss Childs
Welcome to The Built Environment Marketing Show.
FCB Studios is an architectural practice with a strong history for sustainable design, so it was a pleasure to talk to Marketing Partner Fliss Childs about the architecture firm marketing rebrand process that she led where they redefined their brand strategy and tone of voice for now and into the future.
Enjoy.
In this interview we talked about:
How FCB Studios reimagined their brand strategy and found a refreshed voice
Why choosing an agency outside the architecture industry led to fresh thinking and an impactful branding approach
The importance of storytelling and focusing on social impact and cultural value to elevate their brand story
Links
About the show
The Built Environment Marketing Show is hosted by marketing consultant and content creator Ayo Abbas. It is unashamedly about marketing for architects and engineers, as well as bringing forward voices that we don't always get to hear.
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Transcript
Ayo Abbas 00:05
Hello and welcome to The Built Environment Marketing Show hosted by me Ayo Abbas, I'm a marketing consultant, speaker and trainer, and I work specifically with architects and engineers. You can find out more about me and my work at www.abassmarketing.com
Ayo Abbas 00:22
Today, my guest is Fliss Childs, who is the marketing partner at FCB studios, aka Feilden Clegg Bradley architects, we go really deep into a conversation all about strategy, why it's important, and how, I guess practices need to do it on a regular basis to really drive what they do and understand why they do things and what makes them really stand out from the crowd. We also look at how they use that information and the outputs from that piece of work to actually develop the new website, but also how they approach the market in general. So it's a really wide ranging discussion. Anyway, I will let you get on with listening. Enjoy the show. Bye.
Ayo Abbas 01:04
Hi, Fliss, thanks so much for coming onto the show. Can you do a quick intro to you and your role at FCB studios?
Fliss Childs 01:16
Yes, hello. Thank you very much for inviting me on this is it really exciting good to talk to an absolute expert in their field. I am Fliss Childs. I'm a partner at Feilden Clegg Bradley. We'll call it FCB for for ease. I'm head of the communications team, and I sort of oversee all aspects of marketing, public relations and business development. So I'm a busy girl.
Ayo Abbas 01:39
It's one of those where you're like, actually, that's a lot.
Fliss Childs 01:43
I know I sort of look at my job descript and I've been doing it for for quite a long time now, so it feels quite normal. But when you pull it apart, it is always more than you think any job, isn't it? So no, I've been in this industry a while.
Fliss Childs 01:56
So Feilden Clegg Bradley, which was originally kind of known. I know those practices that I've always kind of known is always there and love this stuff now. It's got a huge pedigree. Like, just tell us a bit more about that, and the size of your team and the firm, because it's, it's a big one, isn't it?
Fliss Childs 02:10
Yeah. So we've been around for about 45 years now, and fundamentally, we're based on environmental and sustainability sort of functions of design. And we've been practicing in, we originally started in Bath, and then we moved to London, Manchester, Belfast, and we work across all the different sectors. And I mean, you know, talking of workload, you know, you have to understand quite a lot of the sectors, but that's what makes us quite unique, and we've got sort of specialists in those fields. It's a practice that is quite a community we're grounded on, you know, coming together collectively and sharing ideas. And I think, you know, we have quite a reputation for being quite knowledgeable about our subjects and quite a sort of safe pair of hands. You know, that's a it's a positive thing as well. So we've worked on some really big projects, sterling prize winning projects, and then also really lovely, sort of niche projects as well. So I get a good range of things to talk about, which is always exciting.
Fliss Childs 02:13
You know being a safe pair of hands is that always a good thing?
Fliss Childs 03:19
No,
Ayo Abbas 03:22
it's not. Edgy.
Fliss Childs 03:23
Well, that is why we rebranded, in a way, but I'll tell you about that later. But a safe pair of hands is, is a is a lovely compliment in some respects. And maybe that's what you want from your architect, but you also want to be known as sort of pioneers and forwards, you know, looking and leaders in the field, and we are that as well. So, you know, as lovely as the socks and sandals era has been, we're moving slightly away from that sort of comfortable zone. I'm not saying we're not still a safe pair of hands, but we're got more to us than that. That's what happens when you're really established and really well thought of. And I think, you know, people forget that there is still new, fresh ideas coming through all the time, and sort of pushing boundaries and that sort of thing. So I think you can be both.
Ayo Abbas 04:13
One of the things that I love is strategy. And I think that actually it's something that most people don't think they need, which I always find really interesting. And they kind of go, Oh, yes, we need an output, which is like the website or this strategy bit. Everyone's like, oh, I don't need that. So I guess how important is strategy to you, and how important has it been to the FCB band?
Fliss Childs 04:36
Okay, so I think without clear strategy, you know, your work can just fall through the cracks. So everybody can do lots and lots of output, lots of marketing, lots of comms, and throw it out there all the time, but if you haven't got it sort of consistent, and if it's not hitting what you're trying to it just won't have any impact. So what I try and do is understand what makes us unique as a practice, but fundamentally, what do our clients and collaborators and the people we're trying to sort of get the
Fliss Childs 05:09
of, what do they really want to hear? So to do that, you've got to do your research, and you've got to understand your market. So I think it's really important to invest time in scanning the horizons, understanding the shifts, what's going to happen just before we got the new government in, I spent quite a long time looking at the Labour Party manifesto and thinking, right,right, what's going to change, and how are we going to align ourselves? And you know, you know, what are people going to be talking about? Where's the money going What's the conversations that are going to be had? And I think if you have all that together, and you have that, then you can have a clear strategy about where you want to go, because it's very easy to put content out about stuff that's internally important, but it doesn't really work unless you're talking about what people want to hear. And I think as far as FCB, that is really important, because we span so many different sectors, I think you I could easily put content out every single day on something different, but it doesn't align up to kind of the bigger picture of what we want people to take away. There's a lot of noise out there, as we all know, on socials and on marketing material. And I just think, if you're not careful, it can just fall through and people don't pick up on it. So I try and have quite a clear sort of strategy, looking ahead of what we're going to do and how we're going to focus our time and on that probably often less is more. How far ahead do you plan? I mean, there's a there's there's macro and micro isn't there. So we can, I sort of plan, probably six months to a year ahead when I know, and you can do that when you're working on buildings, because you know they're going to take three, 5, 10, years or whatever, aren't they longer sometimes, so you can, and, you know, your milestones and all that sort of thing, but you've also, and that's all the sort of proactive stuff, but you've got to be reactionary as well, haven't you? So I leave space between that to think, well, that could happen. So, you know, let's make sure that we've got time to kind of consider that. But I think six months to a year, you know, of having a big plan that changes and adapts is really valuable.
Ayo Abbas 07:30
I agree. I think, I think that whole, I mean, yes, you can have that five year plan where you know roughly where you're going, Yeah, but especially with post covid as well the world, it just feels so much shorter, doesn't it? It's just it's a lot more there,
Fliss Childs 07:45
yeah, yeah. And a lot is expected of us, you know. I mean, back in the day when you wrote a press release and put it in the post, you know, it might be published. Oh, actually, I kind of miss those days. It was very it's much easier
Ayo Abbas 08:01
exactly what you're doing, isn't it? It's like, yeah,
Fliss Childs 08:03
and now you you know, you the contents out that what's now, what's now, you know, and that's how it feels. And people's attention spans, you know, to talk about this for ages, but people's attention spans are so short that, if you're not, you know, feeding into that, you've missed your moment. And you could have missed your moment anyway, because it because it could get lost. So you've got to really consider what you're putting out there, I think, yeah, and
Ayo Abbas 08:28
it's a balance of reactive and kind of sticking to your plan, because there's so much noise,
Fliss Childs 08:33
and you've got to be able to adapt your plan. You know, people are sort of quite rigid about it. Sometimes I'm like, that's not the moment. Now, you know, something else has changed, something's happened in the news. You know, we need to change what we're doing. So I think to be in the roles that we're in, you have to be a really adaptable person. You know, talk about spinning plates. It's always about that's the one to spin right now, that project or that theme is relevant or not, and you have to be able to adapt. And I would say in an interview process, that's one of the biggest things I would ask about more than anything else, is, you know, can you be adaptable?
Ayo Abbas 09:08
So can you talk about how you kind of you? I know you said, you know, you've basically read you looked at your you did the rebrand recently, and you changed your strategy. What was the process? I guess that brought you to it. But also,
Fliss Childs 09:20
so Feilden Clegg Bradley is quite an established brand, and you know, we're pretty out there. People know who we are, but that doesn't mean that we should stay stagnant. And so going back to our very beginning, conversation is all about sort of pushing boundaries now. So we looked at our website and our branding, and we said, it's fine, it's fine, but it's a bit tired, and it's not really ready for the future. And I want us to be ready for the next sort of five years. And I felt, on a technical level, there were some things that were kind of constraining us. You know, they could, we couldn't do them on our current website, and we wanted to feel a. It more fresh and do justice to who we are. I mean, competition is really big out there and within the architecture and the built environment, and you need to stand out from the crowd. And I think it's very easy to stay where you are in your comfort zone, but I was like, We need to push out of that, and even as an established brand. So what I did is put together a brief. And when I said, put together a brief, I put together, like, version eight, you know, you can imagine what it's like, you know, you write one, and then you adapt it, and then you talk to people about, you know, what we need to do and what's working for us and what's not. And by about version seven or eight, I decided it was probably time to start talking to some people, because, you know, I'm going to redesign this thing on my own otherwise. So we went out and I did a lot of research, and we looked into all different, you know, who's using what company, and who's doing what, and I've looked at a lot of websites and done a lot of analysis on what you know, we think works and not. And then we started talking to lots of companies, and there are some really fantastic organizations who agencies who work and design architectural and built environment websites, and they're all great. But I wanted something different, so we looked at a few wildcards as well. Who knew nothing really about the industry. And my conclusion, I suppose I came to, was that what you need to do with this kind of process is to find, whether it be an external organization or if you do it internally, you do it internally, you need to find somebody who resonates with you, who gets who's on the same page wave, and sort of gets what you're looking for, and that's ultimately what we found. And you know, I can tell you a bit more about that journey if you're interested, but it was, it was very much a kind of a collaborative, positive relationship that we found in in this company called nice and serious.
Ayo Abbas 12:07
I mean, that's, that's interesting, because I, I mean, I think, as well, once you start doing that piece of research, you realize that you start to see the the kind of style of certain companies that work with certain with architectural firms. And you do start to spot them. Oh, yeah, you know what I mean. And that's from the word, the layout that. And then you're like, Oh, this is done by this firm. And you can, you can see it,
Fliss Childs 12:28
you can spot them. And what I was interested in, and it's, it's not a criticism at all. But there is quite a sort of one style to a lot of practices, you know. And again, the more you look at the more you were like, Oh, the big picture, the provocative, you know, whatever. And I felt like we needed something different, because we're not the same as all the other practices, and it's got to be about who, our brand, principles, our personality. We wanted that to come through, and I felt that we needed somebody who wasn't looking, who wasn't looking to do the same thing, to pull us apart a bit. And what's interesting about the company that we chose, nice and serious, is they have something called moral compass, so they were interviewing us as much as we were interviewing them, and they have to go back to their whole organization and put put Feilden Clegg Bradley into their little pot, into their moral compass, and say to everybody, do you all want to work with these people? Do you think they're on the same level? They are a company. They're an ethical agency, who only basically work with people who are looking to make positive change, and that was our sort of big thing. So luckily, we scored all right. And there we scored very well. That sort of started off our relationship on the same sort of wavelength that we both kind of wanted to make positive change. And I think through that process, we didn't hold back. We went through a thing where they did a real deep dive into our brand, and they went and spoke to all our clients and collaborators without us being there, and they got the positives and they got the negatives, and they threw it all in, and we talked through all of that, and then we gave feedback, and they did, and I think all of that has kind of built our building blocks, you know, it's, it's really, really valuable process, you know, I'd recommend anyone does it, even if you are an established firm, you know, because you don't see it. Do you know,
Ayo Abbas 14:37
when you're inside something, you don't realize what you're about, or necessarily, how good you are, or how other people see you. And I think that third party thing is enormous, because sometimes you see something, you're like, oh, yeah, I hadn't realized that. And, and actually, a lot of your communication should actually use the language of your clients as well. So actually hearing how they talk about you, yeah, useful in that way as well. So, and how was it? To sell in like, to go with an agency that were outside and hadn't done anything in our industry, because, if anything in our industry, we want to work with people that know us and know how we work,
Fliss Childs 15:08
yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, as I said, they were the wild cards. But I think you know, when we met everyone, and these the other very good agencies, they just were offering us what we'd seen before. Yeah, and, I mean, you know, we took a gamble with what we were going to do, but we could see that actually they were the kind of the voice, the outside voice. Because I think what people do in this industry is they talk as if everybody understands the same jargon, as if all our clients and collaborators are in the industry, and they're not always, you know, we're talking to, you know, developers. We're talking to, you know, heads of estates. We're talking to people within different industries. And we felt really that with this company that we went with, that they had the external voice, and it was really good to hear them question us and say, Well, what does that mean? Why are you using this jargon? We don't, because we didn't
Ayo Abbas 16:03
know anything about the industry. They were literally there going, why do you do this?
Fliss Childs 16:08
Exactly? And I think, you know, I think that's what people we do a lot of you know here is that we, we try and sort of, we don't speak, in a way, our tone of voice has got to be to the collective and to for everybody to understand. So I think they really listened to us. I mean, it was a gamble, but it really paid off. And I think it paid off because ultimately they had the same principles and, you know, morals, or whatever you want to call it, cultural ideas, as we had, and they turned to us and said, stop being so quiet about it. Have a voice. Shout out. You know, we're very we were very modest, you know? And I think that's been the biggest sort of wake up call, is it's okay, you know, it's all right to be a bit louder about it.
Ayo Abbas 17:04
It's very un British, though,
Fliss Childs 17:05
isn't it? It's very un British, yes. And it's taken a little bit of nurturing to get us there, but think we're getting there, yeah.
Ayo Abbas 17:13
Are you finding that being kind of bolder? I guess you're finding that that's having a huge difference in terms of how you're the engagement you're getting from people?
Fliss Childs 17:20
Yeah, I mean, fundamentally, what we do isn't drastically different, but I think, you know, we've always worked with the right sort of people, or we've looked for the right opportunities and hopefully engaged with the right people, but I think definitely with our new, slightly bolder, slightly stronger, opinionated tone of voice that that speaks to the broader audience. I we've had some good feedback, and I feel like it's more true to who we are, and I feel like it has had an impact. It's also, you know, you have to teach everyone how to use it, don't you? And it's also been quite enlightening within the practice of to get people to understand how to use the new sort of tone of voice, and to be sort of free with our words and to speak, you know, with a tone of voice that people understand. And I think it's been well received. It has to stay consistent, though, that's something I would say, you know, yeah.
Fliss Childs 17:36
I mean, that's the thing, isn't you invest in all this kind of new strategy website, all of that, and you're like, it doesn't just stop there, yeah, it's a much bigger beast then, isn't it? How do you really embed it?
Fliss Childs 18:42
I think so. And I think it's things that you know are subtle, like we've gone for quite bold graphics, you know, we've gone for on our website, just put a film in at the beginning. You know, you don't need lots of words. You don't need to say, you know, you don't need to say everything in one go. And we've got quite bold font, we've got fresh colors, all those kind of subtleties really sort of transform. And I know that's what you know lots of branding is about. But interestingly, when we came up with this overarching strapline, which is architecture for a changing world, which we use a lot, which sums us up, we had all sorts of variations on that. And then I was like, Well, does everybody know that we are architects? We actually should probably have the word architecture,
Fliss Childs 19:34
but it's such an oversight. Sometimes you see these statements I've been on websites for and I'm like, I don't know what you do. I can't, you know, don't presume that people know what you do.
Fliss Childs 19:46
Yeah, I am currently working on a on a brand strategy for a fit out contractor, and I've just been looking at fit out websites. But yeah, a lot of them don't say the word fit out. Hold on a minute. If we put this in your like, heading, what? Yeah, yeah, I think you can start ranking.
Fliss Childs 20:07
Well, that's it. And then you can go into all the back stuff, like, you know, the analytics, and we did all that, we pulled apart, you know, where were people looking at our website, what were they looking for, and all that sort of assessment. And that's all really, really, really valuable, but fundamentally, tension span is short. You've got to get at the top who you are and what you do.
Ayo Abbas 20:32
Hi, it's Ayo here, and I just wanted to interrupt the show quickly to say a bit more about what I do. I'm a digitally led marketing consultant, and I specialize in working with built environment firms just like yours. I think there's so much more that AEC firms can do to make the most of the digital marketing an opportunity. And if it's something that you would like to explore working with me how to make the best of online and in person world, then do get in touch. Email me at Ayo (which is Ayo) @abbasmarketing.com, and let's have a chat.
Fliss Childs 21:06
I think the other thing that we learnt is all to be brave and to be bold, but also less can be more. So, you know, we've got hundreds. I mean, at the moment, I've got 100 live projects on the go, but at the moment, you know, there's projects that completed. You don't need to have it all up there. It can feel utterly overwhelming. So we made some conscious decisions to just put less of our portfolio on but to put more powerful storytelling pieces on.
Ayo Abbas 21:37
How did you navigate that internally? Because that's always the one where, if that's not my project on there, I feel an engineer, which is true.
Fliss Childs 21:51
I think people understand that because we've, we've got, we're based into sectors. So we understand that we want to have a broad range of what we do. It's not that projects can go on and off. You know, a website is forever changing, right? So things can be added if they're relevant, or we can sort of give a back burner. But there's also another section called Explore on our website, and that is where you can have some thought pieces and go into a bit more detail. So it might be that other projects are picked up on, you know, I haven't got loads of projects that are sat in the background, but there are projects that could come in that could be added into pieces, you know, that could, you know, talk around themes. But I think, you know, with the world of blogs and things and how people, you know, podcasts, which obviously excellent, and the way that people want to listen engage is good to have different ways, not just the this is a 14 million pound project, a little you know, all that kind of stuff
Ayo Abbas 22:52
it gets really styled after a while
Fliss Childs 22:54
in one ear and out the other and nobody remembers any of those facts and figures. But if you tell them that, it's, you know, something really exciting about it and how it's changed the community that it's in, that's what you want to read about, isn't it, you know? So I think that's a real step away from some of the other websites that I've looked at, is to be able to craft a story around the work that you're doing, and fundamentally write it about the end user, because that's what we are doing. It for, you know, and to hear from them, Isn't it nice to hear about the people have moved into your housing development, or to hear about from the kids who are in the schools and the teachers who are teaching in them, and you know, what impact it's had. I mean, that's the way I feel like we're going. How often
Ayo Abbas 23:46
do you go back into a completed project? I mean, do you always go in straight away, or do you go back in, like, at different periods? Yeah, like architecture today, now are starting to do like, you know, 10 years on, how is this project type thing, aren't they? And I think that's really important.
Fliss Childs 23:59
I think that's great. I think that's really important. We did do quite a lot of that. We do quite a lot of post occupancy evaluations. But also something I've been doing with my team is we are going back as not the architect, but as the sort of communication side, and going back and talking to our clients and asking them how they feel about it now, and it's quite therapeutic, actually. And I think what we find is that when you're in a project, and it's the same for anybody who's designing or working on a project, you can get so wrapped up in the detail, can't, you know? Oh, look at that staircase area. You know that was, Oh, I love that. And actually what our job as marketers and people who are communicating is to go back and say, just tell me. Talk to me about what this has done for you. Talk to me about why you feel passionately about this project or not, perhaps, but you know, tell me what's working for you, because it's an incredibly important learning curve for us and and maybe for them as well.
Ayo Abbas 25:06
I know when we talked previously in the briefing call, you spoke about a project in northern, was it in Ireland? You told us a bit about the project that was amazing?
Fliss Childs 25:14
Yeah, so we it is an amazing project. We designed the new University in Belfast, Ulster University and the, I mean, it's an amazing, huge, big architectural project, but irrelevant of that, what's fascinating and what captures me every time is the cultural story of it. Obviously, it's been built right in the city, in the middle of Belfast City Center, where all the troubles have happened over all the years, and what has been amazing. And I went on this taxi ride with somebody from the Catholic community, and he was a local, and he said, for the first time, my children are really engaging with people from the other communities, from the Protestant community, all under this one roof that's been brought in as neutral ground a university is quite a neutral ground, and actually, in the design of this building, a lot of it is open for the public to use. And he talked a lot about that, and he talked to me about the primary schools and the kids who lived around there who had never considered that they might go to university because perhaps in their segregated side, there wasn't a place to go or whatever. And now this is a way of and I mean, that feels quite a powerful statement to say that, you know, where the once was, you know, smash glasses now, and we've actually built it with a lot of glass, which you would never have done. You know, is now a really open and engaging space that's brought two communities. Well, I don't think it's that's the only thing I'd want to take state claim for that, but it's something that's a central point. And I think that can happen in in numerous projects, and don't people want to hear about that? You know, isn't that incredible that that you know your work can have such a sort of cultural impact in society. So going back to the whole it's a 12 million pound project, whatever, I think we should feel that we can talk about the sort of social side and the community aspects of our work that we do, and realize that that is so impactful, and that, you know, people want to to hear about that,
Ayo Abbas 27:29
and it's kind of bigger than architecture, right?
Fliss Childs 27:31
It is bigger than architecture. Yeah,
Ayo Abbas 27:33
it's not just a building. It's that wide. It's the what that what that building actually brings to people, yeah, and that community, right?
Fliss Childs 27:40
But I think it can be with all sorts of things. I've seen it in primary schools. I've seen it in, you know, housing, you know, we've done lots of sort of shared communal spaces where people, you know, can garden and things that they've never had before. And I think it's that's what I mean about talking to the end user and hearing their story and the impact of it. And I think any developer, or anybody who's, you know, commissioning work, I think that's what they really want to, you know, that's what it would be good for them to listen to. Is the impact of these things and how we can re create. Because we don't need to sort of reinvent the wheel every time do we, we need to look at what's working and what's what's worked really well. So I think with our our marketing, I'm really trying to get those voices out there. I think, you know, now, on the likes of social media, people want to hear personal voices, don't they? You know, we can put content out from the practice, and that's great, but you put out an individual in the practice who's got an opinion? Tada, that's, that's, that's where the engagement happens, because it, it's, it's an opinion, and I feel strongly about those sort of pieces.
Ayo Abbas 28:57
There's no one behind, hiding behind a photocopier, hiding from you.
Ayo Abbas 29:03
Everybody's hiding from me. Oh, don't make me do it.
Ayo Abbas 29:08
Come on. People start going, Wow, you're amazing. And they're like, oh,
Fliss Childs 29:14
everybody's always hiding from me. Absolutely, that's okay. That's fine. We can just tease a bit. And also, you know, it's fair enough, like, it's a world that people don't work in, and actually, you just need a bit of guidance. And just say it's okay to give your opinion. Who should I tag in? What should I do? Don't worry too much about it. It's okay. Like, you know, just just, you know, you don't need to worry all the time. You just need to say something that you really, truly believe in, or share something so
Ayo Abbas 29:45
but also, it's a bit of a muscle, isn't it, once you do it, once you try it a few more times, and it just gets a bit easier. So I think, I think that's it. Everyone's like worry that they're going to look, you know, silly amongst their players, which they don't. And I do think it's that. And. Just like, no, just keep trying, just a bit. And then you start to realize,
Fliss Childs 30:03
I just think it's the biggest win when you convert someone, isn't it? And they suddenly go, Oh, I get it. Oh, I get, I get why you do the social media? I'm like, oh, yeah,
Ayo Abbas 30:15
but it's going to be things like, they'll go into a meeting and their client will mention something they've posted, oh, you know, and all of that stuff, and they suddenly realize actually, this does work.
Fliss Childs 30:24
People send you an email saying, Look what someone said, and they were all excited. I'm like, I know, but I do think that the more you can, the more relaxed you can feel about it. We we put out yesterday, a big, really, big project of ours. The National Museums of Liverpool, international slavery Museum, just got planning, which is a massive milestone project up in Liverpool, and we had obviously prepared, my team and I, we prepared all the content and everything that we wanted to put out. We talked to the client and everything, and then one of our partners, who she's leading on it, and she's so passionate about it, she put out something really personal about what it meant to her. And I was like, Oh, that's it. That's it. That was, like, 10 times
Fliss Childs 31:13
And I said, Oh, that was just like, well done, just for being you, because it was, it was professional, but it was also very along the lines of, you know, I understand my project, I care and look how excited I am about it, and I'm the one that's going to be doing it so, really powerful.
Ayo Abbas 31:33
And I think, I think especially on LinkedIn and things, they've got stats, haven't they like, if a post is done from a person, an individual, it gets like, 10 times the engagement then a company post. And so as much as we have our company pages, it's like, if that comes from that individual, from the heart, and they are writing what they care about, yeah, will fly more. And I think that's the thing where, which we don't necessarily harness as much as our industry, but we should.
Fliss Childs 32:00
But I think it's like, it's the same with blogs or anything. People are sometimes a bit afraid to write, you know, or the or I can't write, or they say things like, I don't know how to do it, um, so what I often do is just say, Okay, let's just have a conversation, you know, no paper, no pens, whatever. And I just ask questions, a bit like you're doing now, but like, what makes you care about that, what? What's the biggest, most exciting three things that you can tell me, and when the flow starts to happen? Oh, oh, yeah, I could talk about that or, and I think it's just giving people that headspace to be able to do that as really valuable.
Ayo Abbas 32:36
And I actually, I, when I do that with clients, what I just, I just record it, and that transcript is just generally old, yeah, gold. And then they go, Oh, you're like, oh, when people read their website cooking like, oh, this sounds just like me, because it is you, yeah, quite honestly, I was like, I literally took your sentences
Fliss Childs 32:57
people don't have the headspace or, you know, or quite know what to pick out of that, and that's hopefully what what we do, and that's why we're here. So I think it's quite a collaboration, isn't it, you know? And, and like you say, a conversation is so valuable. And if you can, yeah, if you can record it, if you can get away with doing that,
Ayo Abbas 33:15
great, yeah, all the time. No, I do ask. So I guess one of my kind of final questions is going to be around developing a strategy, and then obviously that led on to your website. What impact is developing that strategy and spending the time on that? Has that had on your business overall? Would you say
Fliss Childs 33:35
so? Well, I would say that with our new brand and our new website and architecture for a changing world, it's given us a real, new confidence about who we are, and the confidence to be able to talk about, you know, it's the website is bright and it's easy to navigate, and it's set us up for the future. It's got, it's got quite bold and powerful statements. And I think the more you put them out there, those sort of yes statements, I think people can understand how you can use them again and again. And I think it's really helped bring up internally, the practice to feel oh yeah, we can say that, and we should feel like, you know, we're on, we're on track with this. And I, I think it's also keeping consistent. And we've, we've kept quite a lot of consistency, particularly in our social stuff. So it's, we've become a bit more, you know, that's, oh, that's an fcb, oh, I recognize, I recognize that green anywhere, you know, or literally just having one image and two wordswords is enough. That's lovely, though, isn't it, and feeling that you can do that, and that's what I mean about feeling bold. But I don't think you can just do that. I think it's got to be part of a bigger plan and strategy that you. People can follow. I mean, hopefully they follow, but understand, you know, that there's more behind it, and there's always a link to something, but you know, just to get people thinking, so I think it's getting everybody on board that has changed the way we're doing it. It's giving everyone a bit more confidence. And I think, you know, you don't underestimate tone of voice and don't underestimate sort of actual brand principles and even the intricacies of color and font and all the rest of it. It's it's powerful. It can be really powerful. I've seen some other lovely brands as well, and I'm always like, Oh, look how they're doing that.
Ayo Abbas 35:40
No, it's great. I love checking out brands. There are certain ones where I'm like, I love your branding. Okay, so I'm going to do actually, an extra question. So in terms of if someone's going to start out on this strategy journey, what tip would you give them?
Fliss Childs 35:54
I would say, do your research. So talk internally, to start with, you need to all be talking about who you feel you are and what you want to get out of it. In the end, what is it that you want to do? Do you want to completely reinvent yourself, which is not what we want to do? Do you want to just give yourself a bit more confidence? Do you want to change one aspect of it? And I think if you can get that basis, that sort of brief at the beginning, and it's hard, like I said, I did about eight versions of it, yeah, things kept feeding in that can be a working document, and it can adapt, and it can change as you go. But don't go in and call up a company and go, oh, I need a new website. Let's do it. Lots of
Ayo Abbas 36:39
people do, and just to point them, yeah, it's
Fliss Childs 36:43
twice as much work, and you may well be frustrated. So I think that preliminary work is really, really, really fundamental, and I think also engaging as you go through the process with other people within your practice or your team or whoever, to make sure that you feel that you know you're on the right path. And ultimately, talking to external just getting external voice. Don't be afraid if it's negative or if it's you know, just get that voice in because I think that will really help you get an external perspective on who you are, brilliant.
Ayo Abbas 37:20
And on that note, thank you so much for coming on to the show.
Fliss Childs 37:22
Thank you very much for having me.
Ayo Abbas 37:29
Thanks so much for listening to The Built Environment Marketing Show. Don't forget to check out the show notes, which will have useful links and resources connected to this episode. You can find that on abbasmarketing.com and of course, if you like the show, please do share it with others on social as it helps more people to find us see you soon you.
